Is there an official policy on Obscure Texts and MK writing?

Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:09 pm

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here, but this has kind of been bugging me. MK isn't an official writing for Bethesda anymore, but everyone treats his stuff like it is canon. Why? Don't get me wrong, it's good stuff(usually), but there is plenty of good fanfiction too. We don't treat it like it is canon. What gives him the authority to write works like Loveletter from the 5th Era and have them revered the way they are? Is there some policy from Bethesda that I'm missing? I'm confused.

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Doniesha World
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:43 pm

At least as far as the Loveletter is concerned, I think it is because it is very much in line with the 36 Lessons, which are an in-game work. Plus we know the works are by someone who at least once wrote for Beth, as opposed to fanfiction which is by definition the work of a fan.

To expand on this, while MK might not currently be working for them, I get the impression he was involved in the creative process not just up to the games he worked on, but into the future. For instance, he knew about/ helped plan the Red Year and Thalmor, among other things.

Finally, I know there are some other little things. Like part of Heimskr's sermon "I breathe now in royalty..." is from MK.

That's about all I know.

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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:02 pm

He's got inside knowledge that is still being used by Bethesda for the most part. The Thalmor and the White Gold Concordant are supposedly his brain-children, and the sermons Heimskr gives along with the painted cows are included in Skyrim itself are nods to his work. For all intents and purposes, his knowledge is still relevant to the series, and that's what counts.

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Miss K
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:38 am

He is the creator of the Vivec himself, of the Sermons, the Monomyth and other Creation Myths, nearly all metaphysical stuff, mythical stuff and more. Who, if not him, would know these areas better?

So, for example, if Tolkien was asked about the future of his heroes or the Middle-Earth, and he'd answered them, but not published officially, I ask you - would everyone treat this as canon or not?

Second, "canon" =/= "truth". So if you call one source canon, it doesn't mean that this source is totally true or at least half true.

Third. Some of his texts were to be published in the Pocket Guides, but has not been published for just economical reasons. How could one throw this stuff away just for that reason?

Fourth. Canonical in-universe sources are widely biased and written in-character by people educated in the lore (far more educated than fans). Non-canonical in-universe sources are widely biased and written in-character by people educated in the lore (far more educated than fans). Where is the difference?

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Jodie Bardgett
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:35 am

The general concensus is that they don't break in-game lore, and they add much to the game world to make it more interesting. The term 'canon' doesn't really apply to situations like this because it very much falls in line with many in-game texts... they're in-universe and subject to as much scrutiny as anything else written by an inhabitant of Mundus. They can be just as true or false as anything else.

Bethesda has been asked whether MK's writings are considered canon, and Pete Hines responsed "maybe".
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Chantelle Walker
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:27 pm

Could you kindly give the source of this response?

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Charlotte X
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:17 pm

But how do we know how far they're taking his interpretations? The Thalmor may be his idea but with what little in-game knowledge we have of them their is no telling whether Bethesda considers his viewpoint on them correct or not. For all we know, the Thalmor may not be out to destroy the world. Maybe the Void Nights weren't because of Khajiit eugenics. These are things we got from Kirkbride, not Bethesda. Bethesda may have used the ideas, but in a different way than how he would have used them. He may have once been a dev but he's not anymore. Bethesda may have decided to go in a completely different direction post-Elder Scrolls V.

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Nana Samboy
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:22 pm

It was a couple years ago on Twitter, around the time of Skyrim's release. Unfortunately I doubt the posting is still around.
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GLOW...
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:07 am

What does it matter, if it's entertaining and it doesn't conflict with anything?

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Prue
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:22 pm

His stuff on the Towers and the Thalmor wanting to unmake the world were referenced in the Keyes novels.

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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:10 am

MK still has some influence at Bethesda. Look at Skyrim for example, the speech spoken by the zealot in Whiterun is almost entirely written by MK

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Jason Wolf
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:48 pm

His work is still prevalent throughout TES, and he had a lot to do with Knights of the Nine. In Skyrim we see the Thalmor which some would argue is a MK influenced organization, painted cows and of course a portion of Heimskr's speech using MK's writing.

I doubt that most people who have actually picked up and played TES games have even heard of him, but for those interested in lore and the background to the vast universe he is considered more than just a fanfiction writer for obvious reasons, because unlike your average fanfic his work is relevant to TES lore and he is responsible for the creation of much of it.

He's not really 'worshipped' by fans either. On this site he's popular and I personally love his work as not only are they relevant and entertaining but so far have never really conflicted with anything in-game but on a lot of sites, particularly more mainstream outlets some of his work is frequently criticised for being 'weird' and 'odd.'

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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:28 am

Thus the 'maybe' he is canon.

A moment of pedantics. But, as far as I know, it is actually only a small part, at least from what I know, the part from the Many-Headed Talos.

"I breathe now in Royalty...for I love you"

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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:29 pm

and a fair amount before that bit. Most of the original text

"Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you."

^ Thats whats included

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Aliish Sheldonn
 
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