So watching the gameplay trailers I could have sworn that the back two raiders stop before they walked into the fires of flamethrowers. . (and then jank around a bit in a glitchy sort of way)

Then again the whole group did walk between two obvious flamethrower gates in an orderly and condensed way. We all know bethesda's track record for AI ( We should call it AS, for artificial stupidity) What do you think will happen this time?

*places bucket over head*

The same thing as in FNV, F3 and Skyrim total stupidity of enemy and friendly AI.

No wonder they are making companions unkillable

I just refer to them as "A".

I know the clip you're talking about. http://i.imgur.com/Tgu88wL.png

They are actually getting shot at before the flames start.

Whenever an OP feels the need to don protective head-gear, I assume they're just trying to poke a bear of some sort, and slowly slowly edge my way out of the room.

yeah i don't see BGS somehow becoming in last four years Bungie/Treyarch/rockstar some best AI programers for fps in the industry.

but i expect to improve alot in that area i think they learned alot from people's dragon mods.

Yeah, al the raiders are running through the same gate/place and they are getting slaughterd.

That is an inprovment !

yeah a staged demo were all the defenses were at choke points that AI couldn't run around or engage any other way because they wanted to show defenses actually working.

if you watch the footage couple times you see that they use all kinds of cheats too make the video.

You sure about that ?

Because in other glimps of the gameplay the AI isn't taking cover or trying to be smart .

Maybe its just the stupid AI that's the problem and not the "zero schools" thing

They said they worked with ID and Bungie for the combat in the game. They wanted it to stand shoulder to shoulder with other FPS games. If they didn't happen to fix the AI AND turn the game into an FPS, then the combat will be even worse than before.

Also,in the background of this pic...I found that statue on google maps.

People need to stop using Raiders (or Super Mutants or Ghouls, for that matter) as examples of idiotic AI. Why? Because those particular enemies are SUPPOSED to behave that way in the context of the game world. Heck, one of the random encounters in FO3 is an initiation of a rookie Raider by a group of four others where the rookie is stripped and the other four are beating the rookie with baseball bats and other blunt melee weapons. These groups of enemies are SUPPOSED to be drug-crazed maniacs or super-strong, super-dumb Mutants or brain-rotted former humans. They are not supposed to be tactical. In fact, in the case of Raiders and Super Mutants, they'd view any sort of tactics as being weak and not worthy.

A worse problem is when modders give human intelligence to animal AI or have human/humanoid enemies communicate telepathically (BoS has headsets for communications and coordination but animals and other human/humanoid enemies do not). Tactics doesn't matter much when the AI does things that simply cannot be done in the world context, from telepathic communication and coordination to firing weapons at speeds that are far faster than possible (as can be experienced when the player tries to fire the weapon at maximum speed). Likewise, the whole "infinite ammo" needs to stop, as well as companions always picking up/switching out any weapon assigned with another that has greater damage even when the player has assigned a specific weapon to the companion for tactical purposes (excluding cases where the companion's assigned weapon breaks or they actually run out of ammo, or they are disarmed, of course).

All of these are greater AI issues than certain groups like Raiders charging a fortified position heedless of their own lives. In fact, historically, there are many examples in real life of soldiers needing to sacrifice their lives by charging heedlessly into an almost certain death. The Normandy Invasion (D-Day) in WWII is a very well-known example in relatively recent history, but there are many others.

I've pointed out problems with the AI and why they need to be fixed in other posts, too, but I wish that everyone would focus on the real issues rather than perceived problems that really aren't problems in the world context of the game (and changing such behaviors could actually detract from reasonable behavior by various enemies given their world context).

Alright the raiders are dumb, but why do androids or synths act like that?

Or are they drug-crazy androids ?

Or what ?

well seeing how fallout isn't cover based shooter and you basically have to stand/crouch in the open if ever wanna hit anything this hardly makes npc's stupid since player for most part uses the same rules.

and forget using cars for cover they just blow you up .

in AI wise about the only things you could do in fallout game to make enemys smarter than what we had in skyrim make them use meds/chems/grenades more and maybe no chase you as far if they have good position and picking up better weapons armour if buddy drops it .

also what is trying to be smart ? thats a little vague

How about not running at a power armored soldier firing a minigun when they are using a peeshooter or a lead pipe.

Then the dicission of making distructable cover makes no sense because the enemies arent hiding.

Trying to be smart:Flanking manouvers, covering fire, dodging or trying to get away from enemy fire.

Edit:The AI in Skyrim is dumb because: the companions are running into traps (they can clearly see them) and also that while i am trying to sneak they are running into a bunch of enemies and getting themselves knocked out.

The sneak system is broken.(i kill an enemy, his friend comes to the place where i have shot my arrow from, looks around for 5 secs and goes away like nothing has happend)

We have seen exactly two (2) synths in firefights. One was crouching and blasting the player and seemed to be getting the best of it. The other was backing away from a shotgun blast. How can you determine behavior based on these 2 examples?

Actually, they have a new man in the team that used to work for Bungie, they didn't work with Bungie. But they did say they worked with id, they know first person combat mechanics, and enemies in RAGE weren't totally brain dead either.


Yup, i too always resort to the "It's not a bug, it's feature" phrase when i can't get something working right

dunno sounds like good plan if your flanking said power armoured soldier one bullet/bash to the head and its over most people in BOS or enclave hate helmets

Todd stated in an interview at E3 that they hired two Bungie programmers to work on the combat, not just one.

Also, not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic against what I posted with your second reply, but what I stated is simply true: the enemies that people often mention are not supposed to be using great tactics or strategy and doing so would seriously impair the believability of such enemies within the world context of the game. As I said, it's the same problem with animals exhibiting human intelligence. In both cases, it violates the behavior that they would reasonably exhibit and thus is very poor AI behavior.

Of course, having BoS (or other reasonably trained combatants) behave in ways where they are heedless of their own lives (excluding needing to take a specific target or some similar context) or not coordinating their efforts via communication headsets is exactly the same problem. Such enemies need to exhibit tactics and strategy, and not doing so makes them unbelievable.

Crouching in a open space, very smart im almost shocked.

Yeah using the same tactic as the wizards from skyrim, backing of while firing.

No inprovment here i say

M house - I have used those exact same tactics in the games. If you round a corner or the nearest cover is 100 ft away and turning to run for it will get you shot in the back repeatedly, I consider hunkering down and trying to kill them first a very smart tactic. Certainly better then getting shot in the back.

There are tree's everywhere.

Yes, lets make the drug addicted raiders that are high as a kite use logic...

... nah. Them charging us makes sense. Ferals are so far gone as well, that charging us makes sense. Animals would have no concept of it, possibly being scared away by explosives (feral dogs from noise, yao gui and scorps wouldn't care)


As for the peashooter vs power armor argument... possibly, but it would be kind of obnoxious if the enemies just ran away, pehaps they would be smart enough to throw grenades until they strip away armor, and then back to pew pew.

Theres no cover-based system to use, so they wouldn't be looking for it. Flanking is a great thought, but I wouldn't expect to see it happen. How often are there large enough groups to even consider flanking?

I wouldnt mind seeing them run in fear if you OHKO someone from stealth, as a sort of "WTF was that!"

I feel like people have no idea what they are asking for when they ask for "smarter" AI.

I had one awesome fight in FO3, came to the Bethesda building and was pinned down by an sniper while being flanked by an group of raiders.

This because I came up to the building at an unusual angle and not behind the large ruins so it just happened as the raider and sniper was positioned right.

In the Mojave wasteland?

One would think, that the 'stupid' enemies would quickly be eliminated, if the best they can think to do is charge pell-mell into a man in powered armor, with a full-auto weapon, when they only have a pistol, or a pipe, and have zero hope of doing anything more than being a brief annoyance, and then being dead...... Unless they adopted better tactics, there wouldn't BE any of them after 200 years.....