I probably died 10 or 15 times the first time I beat fallout 2, maybe more.

The key is collecting everything, all the xp, all the stuff, from the easier places, before even attempting to move to the harder ones. You can get lots of xp in klamath before trying to go after smiley in that damned cave, and it really helps.

Games were just different back then, you had to really pay attention to what you were doing. When I apply that attitude to fallout 3 I'm near invincible by the time I'm ready to leave the megaton area. Somewhere along the way games stopped being targeted at hardcoe nerds and started becoming accessible to regular gamer joe, who doesnt like getting killed all the time.

just the way it goes.

but there are still challenging games coming out every once in a while.

if you stick with fallout 1 and 2, and get good at them, you really will be rewarded, I promise.

1.) Save, and SAVE OFTEN. I mean like every 5 minutes or less.
2.) YOU WILL STRUGGLE FOR THE FIRST LEVEL OR TWO. Get to the rat tunnels and you should be ok from there.
3.) Steal ammo from everyone, save before doing so and reload if you fail.

Fallout 2 is unforgiving early on. But as others have pointed out, you pretty much know nothing of the outside world beyond being a stinking tribal.
Give this game about 2 hours and it exponentially gets better after finishing up the den and you are free to go where ever you want. All directions lie adventure.

Fixed.

Rat caves are part of the Klamath town. Trapper town, on the west side if you talk to the trappers they say they have a rat problem so you can help them, out. Also IIRC if you take everything you can take and take the money also you should beable to sell it to jus tbreak the $300 mark when trading for Sulik.

Here is the answer:



EDIT: And save ALOT

And you go through 90% of the game without taking damage, never facing a challenge and ruin your entire gaming experience. Don't do this in your first playthrough of Fallout 2 at least.

One of those is Spelunky. And it's free to boot. Fun little throwback to platforming days.
Here's link to playthrough to give you some idea about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_V9k9tonM&feature=PlayList&p=17A3A14CDD8108A0&index=1

I'm glad I didn't do this...

Thanks for all the advise!

I worked my way through it quite a bit, I went to do the rat king quest in Trapper Town and finally got my hands on my trusty old Colt 6520. I had one hell of a fight in order to get to it though, taking out that giant albino freak rat with the pipe rifle was no easy task for my meager level 3 character!

It's hard to run around like those kids flinging their arms up in the air and screaming like banshees, while still trying to connect a shot with that pipe rifle and reloading. That uber rat had way too many more APs than me, it always caught up to me and gave me a serious beating. I used up all 3 of my stimpacks and still managed to exit the cave with 003 hitpoints. But I got my gun so I was happy.

I then in turn went to the toxic caves for some payback :gun:

I freed Smiley but had to leave about half the Geckos in the lower level alive, too many to shootdown with limited ammo and no healing items. Of course now I also have Sulik after returning Smiley so I have my first F2 companion...nope, that bone doesn't freak me out one bit...not at all... :ahhh:

Guess I'm off to Vault City soon, I think Smiley gives me another quest so after that is done I'm packing my crap and headed south to see what other sort of horrifying things await us down there.

:swear: Damn Geckos, I hate them so much I'm gonna see if I can add them via mods to F3 so I can hit them in clusters with mininukes! Ah what a symphony of delight that will be... :nuke:

Thanks!! :foodndrink:

Well look at it this way, once Smiley teaches you gecko skinning you have lots more gold skins to pick up. Thats why before rescuin' smiley I kill only the minimum amount of goldens as possible in the places that have them.

I also think the beginning of FO2 is insanely difficult for some character builds that are otherwise good enough for the rest of the game.
The first time I tried I tagged small guns/energy weapons/doctor and picked the gifted and good natured traits. And so you can tell that my unarmed and melee skills were as bad as they get!
Now... I think that got me 19% chance to punch an ant... (less than that to hit it with that spear). Well I'd think that would mean that 1 out of 5 hits would get it but... I guess that's just Gambler's folly and it doesn't really seem to work like that... having 19% chance for each hit meant that I'd usually get about 10-20 failures in a row before I hit! (not to mention no-damage hits)

I really think that it's just bad design, the very first area should not be that punishing for any type of character. Even if they didn't want to throw in a gun that early, so as not to spoil the whole 'primitive-tribal' feeling, they could at least give me a sling or something!
I find the beginning kind of ridiculous and not only because of it's difficulty -- I'm supposed to be the chosen one, I have to go out in the cruel world and face all sorts of tough guys and horrible mutated monsters and whatever... and I have to prove that I can handle those by killing a bunch of ants! and to make things worse... I get mercilessly slaughtered by them!! what kind of a great hero am I?

I would have honestly quit playing the game if I hadn't been beguiled by FO1 before and if I wasn't certain that things would get better.
So no matter how great the game is overall, the temple of trials gets my vote for the worst and most pointless beginning of an rpg ever.

You don't have to fight the ants. It's pretty easy to just run through the Temple of Trials.

True. Nevertheless I'm supposed to be the 'Chosen One'. The 'Chosen One' should be tough enough to not need to run away from a couple of ants!
Plus I wanted to fight them! I didn't mean for my character to be a pacifist or anything and I didn't know in my first playthrough that there's nothing much in that temple (I kept expecting to find a gun around the corner) or where the exits are - if I stumbled on some ants trying to find the exit I had to fight them, or run away risking to run into more ants or worse!
What I'm saying is that in the very beginning it should be easy no matter what... it's purpose should be to help you get used to the way the game works, not to give you a challenge.
Thankfully that's one thing that got significally improved in later rpgs by turning the beginning into a tutorial.

one other tip for a new player to fallout games, always make your agility 10.

then you can run or fight infinitely better than a character with 5 agility.

trust me

The developers of Fallout 2, would logically have assumed you played Fallout 1, so they expected that you would be accustomed to a certain level of difficulty. That being said, the Temple of Trials is supposed to be difficult, not simply a Doom-style slaughter of everything without a scratch.

In a way, the Temple of Trials sort of was the Tutorial Level, I think. If you made it out of there in one piece, you'll have likely made us of all the skills you need to complete the game. And to an astute player, it would have introduced some of the key concepts, as well. (For instance - "hey, these Ants are killing me - maybe I shouldn't be trying to kill all of them," etc. )

But, I also know I'm not the only one who thought the whole Temple thing made very little sense in the context of the game. I mean, here's this huge underground complex that's easily three times larger than the entire village of Arroyo. Maybe if, instead of dedicating all this time and scarce resources to building this elaborate death-trap and keeping it stocked with murderous Ants and Radscorpions they had instead worked on building up their settlement, they wouldn't all be living in crude tents huddled on the edge of a cliff. The crops are failing, the children are sick and dying: you know what's a good idea? "Let's spend all our time building a fortress of traps to try and kill all our young advlts!"

(I think maybe the Vault Dweller got a little senile towards the end, there...)

I love Fallout 2, don't get me wrong. But that part always felt off. It's pretty obvious that it's not some sort of pre-War relic modified for their purposes, and instead something created by the Tribals. If they wanted to do a "rite of passage" sort of thing, they could certainly have made something that made a bit more sense. Not to mention that all that stonework could easily have been better served making permanent housing for it's citizens. Tents make sense for a nomadic tribe, but Arroyo is clearly agriculture-based.

Anyway, just a thought.

For the Fallout 2 modders out there, might be a great building to remake...perhaps have the Temple as an old mall or something else interesting...obviously with a tribal character mind you. On the other hand, since Fallout 2 had a ton of pop culture references, it might be a subtle tip of the hat to Indiana Jones.

I'm gonna try to ignore the "bad design because my char can't be master of all trades" line and say yeah, there is a secret to it: Make a char and play the char the way it is made. If you've made a smart talkative person, do like that person would do, avoid the ants, avoid the traps, talk your way out of the fight etc... if you made a fighter, fight them... really... the ants are _not_ hard if you've actually made a fighter character that can use either a first or a spear.

What about if you made a sniper that doesn't like leaving any enemy alive in his path who maybe is also a good scientist just in case? You're in trouble then... Though it's a perfectly valid choice for the rest of the game. But that's my point right there: "the ants are _not_ hard if you've actually made a fighter character that can use either a first or a spear." -- If you haven't made a fighter character that can use either a first or a spear then the ants are needlessly harder than most enemies in the rest of the game!

Look, the whole point is that as RAmerica wrote I had played FO1 before and I was used to the game mechanics, I picked a character that I had no troubles with in any situation in the first game... and I get slaughtered mercilessly at the very beginning of FO2 which is just frustrating! If I hadn't played FO1 then I would have started over with another character with primary focus in melee and I would have regretted that later. It just doesn't seem to work right either way.

It's not bad design because my char can't be a master of all trades.. it's bad design because it's very demanding of a specific 'way of doing things' without giving any 'rewarding' alternatives... Running away of the ants doesn't feel very rewarding does it? And let me note that it wouldn't stand out as much if the rest of the game was nearly as demanding. But my char who couldn't just squish an ant had no problem surviving through the rest of the game because FO2 is one of the most versatile games I can think of right now. There are very often several equally rewarding ways of solving a problem - hack into a computer, convince the guardians to let you go through, disable the robots or blow up the place etc. There can be minimal fighting without having the need to run and hide or the feeling that you just missed something! The beginning just doesn't reflect that versatility .

Plus it doesn't make much sense anyway, mostly because of these reasons:

(sorry nu_clear_day, I had to cut out the "hey, these Ants are killing me" part since it seemed like a very diplomatic way of calling me an idiot **kidding... just kidding**)
You'd think that in the time they had those people would at least be capable of building some sort of a stone hut without the need of a GECK!

I think it would all feel better if there was some sort of a more 'complicated' quest involved, like if you were sent to the temple to retrieve the vault dweller's equipment, such as his uniform and the pipboy (in which case it would also probably make sense to find some old rusty gun - that would do minimal damage - but it could be used by a sniper char to force his way through the bugs) In such case even if you run away you would still have the feeling that you achieved something!

I too gave F2 a try and boy was I disappointed. I ragequit after a week of frustration and boredom.

Wow, I didn't find it that hard al all you don't HAVE to go and kill everything in the temple you know, you only really need to fight like 4 Ants and the guy at the end. Again if you aren't good at fighting in melee or H2H why are you getting into combat with them as much as possible?

Ya for got to mention that ya do not even have to fight the guy in the end. If I recall right, ya a tribal. Hate to stereotype, but their ideal strength == physical prowess. So this is not surprising at all.

Again... because I didn't know better + because I don't like leaving hostile creatures alive for some reason + because killing all the rats in the beginning of FO1 was easy with any character and I thought it will be a similar deal with the ants.

I started a new game again yesterday. Again I didn't tag unarmed or melee yet I had no trouble killing every ant and scorpion in the temple - I reached the Den in no time, without ever getting even close to death, with level 6 character wearing a leather armor and a whole lot of money to spare. But now I know exactly what I'm doing... it's the first time that counts.

Anyway the fact that I can chose not to kill the ants doesn't mean that the ants aren't too hard to kill does it?
All I'm saying is that the very first enemies should be reasonably easy just in case I would want to kill them!

So ya comparing a Vault Dweller to a Tribal as they are fresh out off the game. It is not coincidence that the Tribal is already decent with H2H and Melee as they have to survive out in the wilderness from constant danger and hunting. Survivability of the fittest can apply here.

Vault Dweller wise, ya just got out of protective Vault, away from danger, and it is no surprises that teh VD would fight a bunch of weak Rats instead of Ants.


But the first time around of playing Fallout 2 should be memorable as it like being really hard on the player. But right after the Den, it get really easy from then on. Also, it kind of have that mentally that the Dev assume some players played Fallout 1 already, so they know that basic concept of the game. But for those who don't, this "hard" beginning should prepare for the outskirt of the wasteland.

No, the fact that ya do not have to fight the ant mainly that ya just don't care (or a waste of time) and just run away. Ya still can kill it, but it all depend why the player does it.

Second point, read my tribal comparison.

Well... in tht case why did I need to fail 10 - 20 times in a row before I could get a hit for 1 point of damage? Not good enough with HtH and melee.
And, what? You mean that if I tag small guns, energy weapons & science I should be punished because I didn't pick a proper tribal character?
As for the Vault Dweller - Tribal comparison... well... first time in FO1 I killed not only the rats, but also all the radscorpions in Shady Sands with a level 1 character (with a gun)... Yep the vault Dweller seems to me way tougher than the Tribal... but actually no, it's just that FO1 gave me better choice of beginner's equipment.

Why does the hard beginning need to prepare me for the outskirt of the wasteland since you also admit (and I agree) that it gets really easy after the Den?
They give me a hard time so I'll be ready to handle the easy part later? (games usually work the other way around: easy---->hard---->harder) And don't tell me that it gets easy after the Den because the tough lessons worked... no; it's easier because after the Den I can get better guns! (or equipment in general)

Also... don't forget: I did finish FO1 before playing FO2 for the first time - I understood the basic concepts of the game - I had no serious trouble in FO1... and still I get slaughtered by the ants.