[*Chloe*]

dovakin can use a shouts,spells,enchanted weapons etc but V.A.T.S is not allowed for the courier?

Well since they are nerfing Courier we can nerf Dovalump: Dovalump is not allowed to use Smithing for 140123523 defense.

[Nikki Hype]

Well supposedly a single Spartan could kill a Ninja in the woods.

[XPidgex Jefferson]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda revealed that the Fallout and Elder Scrolls universes were one and the same, some how.

I'm actually quite surprised that you even said that.

[Charlie Sarson]

Well since they are nerfing Courier we can nerf Dovalump: Dovalump is not allowed to use Smithing for 140123523 defense.

Not that it matters. Same result is same.

[Emma louise Wendelk]

VATS is a gameplay mechanic, not a character ability. It is something you, the player, does; not something the courier does. It shouldn't be added to the discussion.

If you want to consider VATS then you should also consider that the Dovakhiin cannot take locational damage, but the courier can.

[Sara Johanna Scenariste]

VATS is a gameplay mechanic, not a character ability. It shouldnt be added to the discussion.

If you want to consider VATS then you should also consider that the Dovakhiin cannot take locational damage, but the courier can.

We ARE considering that.

[Daramis McGee]

VATS is a gameplay mechanic, not a character ability. It is something you, the player, does; not something the courier does. It shouldn't be added to the discussion.

If you want to consider VATS then you should also consider that the Dovakhiin cannot take locational damage, but the courier can.

The character has the Pip Boy which the VATS system operates from.

[Jinx Sykes]

The character has the Pip Boy which the VATS system operates from.

Father Elijah even fourth walls it up and basically states that it's NOT just a gameplay mechanic but that things like the targeting system are actual technologies and features of the Pip-boy.

[CSar L]

The character has the Pip Boy which the VATS system operates from.

In lore It is a target assist not a time freeze. It would give the courier greater accuracy and foresight but not freeze time for him.

We ARE considering that.

then this discussion is absurd. You cant base arguments on game mechanics because the game mechanics are not the same.

That's like saying that Terra from final fantasy 6 could easily kill Chrono from Chrono trigger because she can do 9999 damage and he can only have a max of 999 hp.

Using game mechanics from two different games (even if they are similar) to compare characters only leads to roundabout discussions of "Well if blank could do blank then blank would do blank and blank would then blank, but if blank could blank he would blank blank."

Power arguments should be based on Lore when comparing characters from two different games.

Father Elijah even fourth walls it up and basically states that it's NOT just a gameplay mechanic but that things like the targeting system are actual technologies and features of the Pip-boy.

like I said in lore it is a target assistance utility, not a time freeze mechanic. You can say yeah the VATS would give him an advantage in accuracy but it doesnt stop the Dovakhiin in his tracks like time freeze does.

[Lauren Dale]

In lore It is a target assist not a time freeze. It would give the courier greater accuracy and foresight but not freeze time for him.



then this discussion is absurd. You cant base arguments on game mechanics because the game mechanics are not the same.

That's like saying that Terra from final fantasy 6 could easily kill Chrono from Chrono trigger because she can do 9999 damage and he can only have a max of 999 hp.

Using game mechanics from two different games (even if they are similar) to compare characters only leads to roundabout discussions of "Well if blank could do blank then blank would do blank and blank would then blank, but if blank could blank he would blank blank."

Power arguments should be based on Lore when comparing characters from two different games.

What is your main point? I feel as if though you mean to reiterate under false pretense.

[alyssa ALYSSA]

Well since they are nerfing Courier we can nerf Dovalump: Dovalump is not allowed to use Smithing for 140123523 defense.

Dovalump? Thats the best one i've read yet.

[Brian Newman]

What is your main point? I feel as if though you mean to reiterate under false pretense.

False pretense?

All I'm saying is that when you discuss a "who would win" fight from characters from two different games, game mechanics are the worst thing to use as a basis in discussion.

The arguments should be based on lore, what the character has actually done, not what the player can do. Lorewise you can actually make direct comparisons on their power rather saying "oh, well if dovakhiin can freeze time then Courier can do the same thing cause when i use VATS it freezes the game!"

In lore VATS is nothing more than a target assistance utility. It does not freeze time for the courier. Saying it gives him anything more than an accuracy boost is absurd.

[Taylor Tifany]

False pretense?

All I'm saying is that when you discuss a "who would win" fight from characters from two different games, game mechanics are the worst thing to use as a basis in discussion.

The arguments should be based on lore, what the character has actually done, not what the player can do. Lorewise you can actually make direct comparisons on their power rather saying "oh, well if dovakhiin can freeze time then Courier can do the same thing cause when i use VATS it freezes the game!"

In lore VATS is nothing more than a target assistance utility. It does not freeze time for the courier. Saying it gives him anything more than an accuracy boost is absurd.

1) Where in lore does it say VATS doesn't in some way slow the user's perception of time? It doesn't. Elijah's speech would even suggest it's very possible it does. The time freeze is obviously there so the player can register decisions, but the slowed time for enemies during VATS?

2) VATS is completely unneccesary in the fight for a Courier victory irregardless because Steady offers perfect aim. Likewise, Turbo slows his perception of time.

3) Lore-wise, you're comparing power by-proxy, which is even worse. Then it's "Dovahkiin killed Alduin so he's better." Alduin =/= Courier Six, the two are completely different. Plus then in this case, the Courier gets severely underestimated whereas Dovahkiin is severely overestimated. Dovahkiin supporters can say "he killeded draguns" with no logic to back that statement up whereas Courier Six supporters have to say "he settled a political struggle," which does nothing to measure power. Or we end up saying "he killed hordes of tunnelers;" well who the HELL is supposed to know if a dragon is stronger than a tunneler horde or not?

Game mechanic-wise?

We know the Courier can constantly remain invisible.
We know the Courier can detect invisible and stealthed opponents thanks to ED-E enhanced radars, and game endings SPECIFICALLY name ED-E as the sole constant companion who continues to aid the Courier. ED-E doesn't even need to be directly present for his sensors to benefit the Courier.
We know the Courier can fire at insane rates thanks to Rushing Water and Turbo.
We know the Courier can deal a solid 300 damage per shot.


That alone should be definitive, as the Dragonborn has no way to counter it.

[Saul C]

False pretense?

All I'm saying is that when you discuss a "who would win" fight from characters from two different games, game mechanics are the worst thing to use as a basis in discussion.

The arguments should be based on lore, what the character has actually done, not what the player can do. Lorewise you can actually make direct comparisons on their power rather saying "oh, well if dovakhiin can freeze time then Courier can do the same thing cause when i use VATS it freezes the game!"

In lore VATS is nothing more than a target assistance utility. It does not freeze time for the courier. Saying it gives him anything more than an accuracy boost is absurd.

false pretense? you seem to know what I'm referring to. You seem to know that the Pip boy is technology that the character can use to his advantage and that it assists in the player characters accuracy, but regrettably, does not stop time.

I'm just saying stop bringing up game mechanics because we all know how it works. Additionally, VATS plus any long range rifle would put an end to the Dovah. Even without VATS..I'd imagine some cross hairs are for more accurate than the edge of a wooden bow. I mean, amiriteoramirite?

[Jason Rice]

false pretense? you seem to know what I'm referring to. You seem to know that the Pip boy is technology that the character can use to his advantage and that it assists in the player characters accuracy, but regrettably, does not stop time.

I'm just saying stop bringing up game mechanics because we all know how it works. Additionally, VATS plus any long range rifle would put an end to the Dovah. Even without VATS..I'd imagine some cross hairs are for more accurate than the edge of a wooden bow. I mean, amiriteoramirite?

As I said, Steady = 100% accuracy basically.

I'd also imagine we're assuming these two HEROS are tough sons of [censored]es and don't make mistakes like missing, under normal circumstances.

[Causon-Chambers]

Deathclaws would [censored] Dragons on Master/VH/HC mode.

[Stephanie Nieves]

As I said, Steady = 100% accuracy basically.

I'd also imagine we're assuming these two HEROS are tough sons of [censored]es and don't make mistakes like missing, under normal circumstances.

And that the Courier has already proved that dying doesn't really kill him.

[Natalie Harvey]

Maybe I should have said the best arguments should be explainable in lore. I didn't speak about the slow time perception mechanic, only the time freeze.

Almost all of those game mechanics you pointed are very easily explained in lore.

We know the Courier can constantly remain invisible.

Stealth boys obviously. It is a game-mechanic and a lore mehcanic.

We know the Courier can detect invisible and stealthed opponents thanks to ED-E enhanced radars, and game endings SPECIFICALLY name ED-E as the sole constant
companion who continues to aid the Courier.

ED-E has heat sensors and transmits that information to you or youur pip-boy.

ED-E doesn't even need to be directly present for his sensors to benefit the Courier.

To me this is like saying that Boone would help the courier spot the dovakhiin even if he wasnt there. a game mechanic only ability and to me not a strong arguement.

We know the Courier can fire at insane rates thanks to Rushing Water and Turbo.

drugs that can increase perception and reaction time.

We know the Courier can deal a solid 300 damage per shot.

again game mechanic discussion that doesnt carry enough weight imo. what is 300 damage in lore? is that their head coming off their shoulders or a graze on the cheek?

I should clarify and say that the best arguments are ones that can be explained in lore.


also you are selling the courier short lorewise. He did take a bullet to the face and the dovakhiin would not know how to operate a gun. The courier would at least have some operational aptitude with a gun and most of the time gun shots to the face are pretty lethal.

[The Time Car]

To me this is like saying that Boone would help spot you spot the dovakhiin even if he wasnt there. a game mechanic only ability and to me not a strong arguement..
again game mechanic discussion that doesnt carry enough weight imo.

Except ED-E isn't Boone: he's high tech and the game itself presents several situations where ED-E sends and receives packets of data, presumably across the entire Mojave (ED-E to the Followers and/or BoS) and the Divide (Ashton to Ulysses' Temple).

And lore-wise I would think the AMR with explosive ammo would be even more of an issue, since the thing supposedly curbstomps deathclaws and it was a big friggin deal that Graham and the Courier could survive headshots.

[Sunnii Bebiieh]

Except ED-E isn't Boone: he's high tech and the game itself presents several situations where ED-E sends and receives packets of data, presumably across the entire Mojave (ED-E to the Followers and/or BoS) and the Divide (Ashton to Ulysses' Temple).

And lore-wise I would think the AMR with explosive ammo would be even more of an issue, since the thing supposedly curbstomps deathclaws and it was a big friggin deal that Graham and the Courier could survive headshots.

In my opinion in an optimal setting for both of them I have to give it to the courier 7 out 10 times.

The courier just has more tools at his disposal. The insanely more advanced tools/weaponry at his disposal to me kinda trumps the fus roh dah and the other shouts.

If they were both dropped in an arena with nothing but their wits and strength in a fight to the death then the courier would have no chance at all. That's when the shouts would become imba.

[P PoLlo]

In my opinion in an optimal setting for both of them I have to give it to the courier 7 out 10 times.

The courier just has more tools at his disposal. The insanely more advanced toolsweaponry at his disposal to me kinda trumps the fus roh dah and the other shouts.

If they were both dropped in an arena with nothing but their wits and strength in a fight to the death then the courier would have no chance at all. That's when the shouts would become imba.

Right.

I think that matchups like this can easily be summed up by who has the most tools at their disposal.
Courier Six can knock people on their asses (Ranger Takedown), stun them (Paralyzing palm), use range (superior range to bows since bullets can't be anticipated), stealth, detect stealth, pierce armor (chainsaw, thermic lance, industrial hand), slow his perception of time, get perfect defense (slasher + battle brew + med-x) and still dish out nice damage.

And then there's the luck factor and the fact that his life story seems to imply the man is death personified, as every nation he gets close to seems to die. Someone a couple pages back suggested the Courier probably ALREADY won, and that he's behind the return of the dragons by unwittingly delivering dragon pheremones to Helgen. I wouldn't be surprised if he had...

[El Khatiri]

I would not be surprised if the courier was the messenger of death.

Get it, messenger of death, courier...

[TASTY TRACY]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda revealed that the Fallout and Elder Scrolls universes were one and the same, some how.

Oh god no... They would never do that, because Fans of both series would be pissed, and they'd ruin both series.

Well since they are nerfing Courier we can nerf Dovalump: Dovalump is not allowed to use Smithing for 140123523 defense.

Doesn't matter. The Courier can pull out a thermic lance/Industrial hand and simply ignore that defense.

[Rude_Bitch_420]

Longknife is making me re-think everything i've posted (except the Gordon Freeman post).

[Laura Tempel]

Longknife is making me re-think everything i've posted (except the Gordon Freeman post).

I have never seen a more convincing argument for "which video game character would win" before.
I want to make a joke on how he's a nerd and has no life, but now I have to much respect for the man.