My character is on the good side but Lucien Lachance visited him on his sleep. I don't recall having killed any innocent, probably it's just me firing arrows here and there while sneaking. Is there a way to undo a murder I don't even know I did? I might just kill Lachance when he visits me but I'd rather issue a console command to undo the killing and pay more attention at who I'm killing from now on

hmm, I think that can happen if you sneak kill a bandit or some other npc who you know is hostile but hasn't spotted you yet. You gotta let them take the first strike I guess.

You can try looking here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Console_Command_Tutorial#ModPCMiscStat_StatNum_.23

There's some really great items you can only get from doing the Dark Brotherhood questline.
Most of the people they have you assassinate are scumbags anyway. It's not like they have you slaughtering girl scouts while they're trying to sell cookies to raise money for briast cancer awareness
Their targets are mostly thieves, swindlers, and corrupt politicians.

No, you can't undo murders. However, some people who you kill could get you into the guild. For example, I killed the Grand CHampion without doing his quest.


Rydr:Would that happen? Bandits are hostile, and I thought murdering only happens to people when you start combat with non hostiles.

If you gained any infamy because of it, repent your sins to the Nine. They may grant you their favor and wipe away your sins.

Ignoring the DB pro's and con's, you're going to have a hard job avoiding any deaths from friendly fire through your entire play-through, except by using reloads and console fixes to undo them. The standard AI seem to require that people leap in front of you when they're just about to die anyway. So Lucien's going to visit most characters. I just ignore ignore that invitation to join if I'm not playing that kind of character.

One way to accidentally join the Dark Brotherhood is to do the Origin of the Grey Prince quest then afterwards when you fight him to become grand champion the game will class it as murder because he doesn't fight back. I think it being classed as murder is a bug but on console there is no way of avoiding it.

That happened to me once, i resorted to loading an earlier save in which the "murder" hadn't occured.

The murder calculations are far from perfect. If you frenzy an NPC into commiting 'suicide by guard' it is not a murder. If you nick him with a poisoned dagger and the poison does the killing, it is not a murder; but if your summon does the killing it is. Some quests involve NPCs that are scripted to turn hostile on you at some point right after they talk to you (Caminalda, Maglir and a few others) - it is very possible to kill them after they turn on you but before the game 'registers' them as hostile, giving you a murder. If you simply sneak attack a hostile bandit who is unaware of you, that is no problem. And of course the Gray Prince has already been mentioned. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the fact the game thinks you murdered someone if you think you didn't - your judgment is probably better. Lol.

Thanks for the tip, tried with ModPCMiscStat 6 -1 and ModPCMiscStat 32 -1 with other negative values too with no luck, Lachance always approach me. Apparently what triggers the event is not based on the murder count, at least not the value from the PC stats.



Can't happen, whether a wandering NPC is hostile or not towards the PC depends only on the faction he's in.



This is fixed in the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.

Whatever, I have killed Lachance, hope the Gods may forgive my sins

Oh, and I have already did the quest in earlier runs, it's good but it doesn't fit my current character role.


hey! Avatars are back!

Pretend that Lucien was just lying about that you are a murderer, to try to trick you into joining the Brotherhood. You have never murdered anyone.
And when you killed Lucien, you made Tamriel a service, ridding Cyrodiil of an evil man.

And yeah, it's good to have our avatars back at last!

Haha, great idea, from now on my conscience will be at ease

This is what most of my characters have done.

It's almost impossible to avoid the eventual visit from L.L. The AI is so dumb that friendly NPCs will barge right into your sword when you're fighting a bad guy. Also, there are occasional times when the game is really obtuse about who is an "enemy." I've had the "Your killing has been observed..." message pop up when sneak-shooting a vampire in a dungeon, and I'm pretty sure it can happen in other inappropriate situations.

If you kill L.L., it ends the quest, and allows you to remove the silly dagger from your inventory. (It can be a fairly interesting fight, as he's tough and uses chameleon to avoid you.)