Stop piracy my ass, I can't even tell how pissed I was when I found out i have to download 20+ gb of data with my slow AF internet connection, I bought the physical copy because I did not want to download the crap.

And why did they not tell us that the game would have to be downloaded anyways? Nobody warned me about it. This is the last time i pay for a pc game, ever! I had to wait 2 days to download it and it's still downloading, wth Bethesda? This is the last time I support a game company, had enough of this [censored].

I recommend every PC gamer find out if the PC game they are buying is a digital download in a box. At that point if you know that you can get it on steam and pre download it so it's ready on launch day.

Though a lot of good but now bad companies are turning to new systems where they consider pre downloading only downloading a small portion and have you download the rest after launch which is bull crap.

There is a new racket of stream playing which svcks even worse well downloading.

Yeah, basically it stopped early piracy.. but once one person hast the full game it doesn't stop piracy at all. The main problem with this sort of system is that what it really does is make the physical pc version of the game nothing more than a rental.

+1 on that.

That′s where I′ve always been. I′ve always checked carefully what a game requires before I′ve bought one. Just sad I have to do that, really.

I can't believe someone bought the physical disc to play this... it's 2015 guys you should have fast internet now, it's not the 1990's!

Not everyone lives in a city and those who do might have a cable company that holds a monopoly with poor service

Really surprised they sell physical copies at all. Wasn't Skyrim "Steam only" or something like that? I sort of figured that it was established as the norm for PC games some years ago that: if it is a Steam game, there is going to be a substantial download, even if a physical disk 'hook' is somehow involved. Not to deride it as unethical or deceptive, but I concluded a couple years ago or more that, that is all these "physical copies are" a 'hook.' It is something to put on shelves at brick and mortar stores that will promote a few more sales. If it is a Steam game, the game will be downloaded off of Steam, or at least the majority of its files . . . I feel sorry for those of you who didn't understand this, but that has been my understanding for some years now. If you look in the fine print on the box, it might even say how much content you will have to download to make the game function.

I used to be in the tinfoil-hat-wearing, pitchfork-wielding, "Down with Steam!" camp . . . but I guess I just "gave in" eventually (not to say anyone in this thread struck me as being like that). Steam has one of the most "non-committal" EULAs I've ever read, but then again the service it provides is exemplary, it is worth it I guess. I've even had them refund a purchase I didn't intend to make, and a few other instances where they did the right thing by me. All the conspiracy theories about them "monitoring" and controlling us through our digital connections really seems like silliness now in retrospect. Have never had any substantive problems with Steam that I wasn't able to quickly rectify, but I digress, this is really not so much about Steam (as it would've been 4 or 5 years ago), it is about the "mixing" of digital and physical media in PC game sales, and the unmet expectation of those with slow internet service that they shouldn't be required to download substantial quantities of content to make their game functional. I empathize with all of your frustrations, but I cannot actually say I "sympathize" with it. Buyer beware after all. This kind of thing is precisely why I rarely buy games until they have been out for a while, so it is not a matter of me being a "corporate really devoted fan." They don't get my money until the pioneer market segment has paved the way and I can see pretty clearly what I'm getting in to.

I'm lucky to live in a metro area where I can get good speeds on internet and have pretty much completely converted to digital procurement. Apart from installing older games I've owned for years on a new rig I cannot recall the last time I installed a game off of a physical media. About the only thing I use physical media for is to backup a HD, and even for that I prefer to use an external HD.

As some have pointed out, Bethesda and Zenimax are businesses not charities, and trust me, we all prefer it that way. Their games would be utter crap if they were freeware. They had 90 developers who worked for 3.5 years on Skyrim and if memory serves they had 2 or 3 times that many contractors helping out at the peak of development; it is probably comparable for FO4. Those folks deserve to get paid a reasonable wage for their craft. I just do not believe that the end product of a AAA title like Skyrim or FO4 would be anywhere near as delightful if those folks were toiling for 3.5 years with no pay and only an expectation that their work might eventually turn into income down the road . . .

As to the claim that the size of the required download could have been smaller: I cannot comment. It may be that that would have been inconvenient for either the developers or the distributors, or it may be that it would have been a technical hassle. Either way, I cannot say I blame Bethesda and their distributor for doing it the way they deemed best. It may have occurred to them that a small fraction of their customers would be annoyed at the size of the required download, but they probably assumed (as I did before I saw this thread) that it was pretty widely understood among PC gamers that Steam downloads are the "new" norm (if five or six years can count as "new").

"Most" purchasers of the PC version are probably on good networks and will barely furrow their brow at the required download. It is almost assured that "most" of their purchasers as a whole are not even PC users at all. The fraction of folks who are PC users who purchased a physical copy expecting the required digital download part to be small and then met with frustration because the digital download was large and their internet connection was slow is probably in the < 1% of all sales, and possibly an even smaller fraction of all _potential sales_. Would it make sense for Bethesda to spend time and money to implement product packaging and policies that served a mere 1% or less of their potential customers? This does not make them "evil" "mean," or "insensitive bastards," it merely makes them business people. If you understood that the game required internet access and you have slow internet then frankly the prospect that it might be slow to download it should've occurred to you. It is not like you are being deprived of your copy of the game, you are just going to have to wait a bit longer than you would like to play it is all.

If you guys with the innocent expectations and the slow internet were even 5 or 10 % of total sales, then it would be different. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I really do empathize with your frustrations. But that is the reality of it I reckon. You are in a tiny fraction of the market and it just doesn't make sense for the publisher or distributor to sweat it beyond its proportional importance.

Usually the info is clearer if I had been fully aware there was only 1 disk I would never have bought it. For example you could buy the download edition on Amazon or the physical edition... common sense would suggest you are buying the whole game on physical media otherwise why have a separate download version.

Sigh.

Again with the "it′s 2015" stuff. So what? Haven′t you read the posts here? A lot of people don′t have fast, free internet. They simply don′t and often there′s jack they can do about it.

But hey, I guess since it′s 2015 we don′t need to eat food anymore and wipe our butts with toilet paper. A specific year changes everything apparently

Although not every person who plays games are thoroughly on the loop about what's really going on specially when companies are hiding the details in the first place. Even I who usually do my homework when I buy any product wasn't aware of this tactic but thanks to the reviews of MGSV I was all of the sudden cautious about buying AAA games. Nevertheless, it is good advice to tell people to ALWAYS check from now if a game is exclusively digital.

Try telling your self that when you live in the countryside with no internet lol.

If the game is a "Steam game" then I think it is safe to assume it will require a substantial proportion of the total content to be downloaded via an internet connection using the Steam client. This has, to my knowledge, been standard for five or six years now. "Physical copies" are just labels to put on shelves in brick and mortar stores.

If you have "no internet" then you were foolish to buy the game at all, as it almost certainly states in any marketing material that it "requires an internet connection to the Steam servers" to play it.

I know slow downloads are annoying. But they do not ultimately "stop" you from playing the game you bought, they just make you wait longer.

Actually this did not stop early piracy, just as skyrim didn't.

There is absolutely no reason the physical version should not have had a warning. And no, Petey Hines vague comment wasn't a warning. Further more there is no reason buyers of the physical version should have not been provided with a code to pre load( assuming the warning, had there been one, didn't put them off from buying). Either way, lesson learned. I know who deserves my money and who doesn't.

For the "Skyrim" comment, I bought it via a physical copy (Amazon UK had a bargain price compared to download only). It was a few years back but I don't recall an enormous additional download. Sure, if you wanted the high def texture pack (which was optional) but the base game itself was up and running pretty swiftly after the install. At the time I wasn't on a mega fast broadband either.

There's no way to excuse Bethesda here. They should have made this widely known beforehand to all retailers, simple manners really.

And I'm glad they did get rid of it. Thank you Obsidian for paving the way on that one.

Usually when I see a AAA game that has Steam written all over it I usually assume is going to have DRM and that one would need to download patches through it but not to download the whole freaking game. Indy games is a whole different matter. I'm also aware that AAA games do have the full digital option for sale as well as the traditional option - with Steam as the DRM service.

Ah okay. Well, assuming your memory is accurate (I never buy physical copies any more so I couldn't say) . . .When you say "widely known" what would you mean by that? I'm not asking that to be confrontational, but literally to try to untangle what it was about the marketing or advertising that you think they could have (or even could still) do differently?

Another question that is worth mulling over for those of you who are annoyed and expressing your annoyance in this thread: _IF_ Bethesda had plastered every single advert, every single package label, every single internet screen which included any hint of product promotion for Fallout 4 with a 10 second, pre- and post-screen (or in the case of physical media a superimposed text field) saying: "WARNING!! TO PLAY THIS GAME YOU WILL HAVE TO DOWNLOAD 25GB OF FILES VIA AN INTERNET CONNECTION TO THE STEAM SERVERS!!" . . . would you have NOT bought the game?

Problem is that it was barely mentioned at all. I was pretty sure that this will happen that's why I bought the digital download only this time.

Sorry Bethesda that really wasn't a nice move.

Good question! If I was languishing on a terrible connection or I was severely capped (or both) then I would have probably tried to make alternative arrangements in advance. Borrow a friend's connection, that kind of thing. Especially the capping thing - slow is OK as long as you don't mind your PC being on for several days straight, but a cap means that you're going to have to shell out additional money to your ISP which isn't anyone's idea of fun. I would still have bought the game (as I love Bethesda games) but my expectations would have been tempered for launch and I wouldn't have had to face a "your download will take 3 days" message and a lot of ill feeling.

I definitely think Bethesda should have made it very explicit on their official FO4 site. It's what most of us have been peeking at - it's got the PC requirements, after all. I don't check Twitter or Gamespot or whereever they made their offhand comment. Major retailers like Amazon and Game (in the UK) could have put up a banner. You can't really get PC games in many other places, some supermarkets stock them but it's rare.

I think this pretty much nails it. Most people are reasonable (believe or not). It's surprising how honest communication can make an identical situation good or bad. Sure Bethesda would've likely lost some sales by writing it on the box, but at least those who did buy would buy it knowing what they were in for. Until this year every physical game I've bought (and I always buy physically) has the vast majority of files on disc. Steam is simply DRM and a patch supply service. This is the first PC game I've bought where that is no longer the case. While I love Bethesda and I love Fallout 4 (and I'm even lucky enough to have half decent unlimited internet) these practices make me feel sick. I grew up with limited internet and it heavily restricted what I could and could not do. I feel for those still stuck in that situation.

It is edifying to hear your candid responses Richardb70 and daiyus. It might even help Bethesda to smooth over additional user complaints by going overboard with notifications of the size of the required download.

It sounds like you both would still have bought the game, maybe even on the same day. You just would have had different expectations.

Exactly. I wouldn't miss Fallout 4 for the world, but if I still lived at my old house and there had been a warning on the box I would've expected the weeks of downloading and come to terms with that before installing. As it is it's come as a shock to many, many people and that's why they're upset.

So basically, you'll get over it?

Hehe. Me? I was over it the moment I read it a few weeks ago. I didn't even bother cancelling the physical pre-order as I like having something to put on my shelf. I've got the game, it's downloaded, and I can play. From a gamers point of view I'm sitting pretty.

From a moral standpoint I'm still extremely disappointed in how Bethesda have done this, but unfortunately it's the PC community's unwillingness to adopt Blu-Ray that ultimately disappoints me. If everyone had bought a Blu-Ray drive when they came we wouldn't have this problem at all. Those with crap internet still get their game, those with good internet don't have to buy discs; win-win.

Here's to hoping this backlash will push Bethesda to be the pioneer to change the format of future physical releases in the business.