In response to the title (and subtitle):
Yes, yes they should.

Wait, so people can't state their opinion on here? That's ridiculous, people should be able to state that without fear of people getting offended.

The only thing that makes the statement about Oblivion wrong is that it says people can't criticize it (it's telling people what to do). People should be able to criticize both games, and praise both of them on these forums without fear of offending people.

Of course they can. You can say "I don't like Morrowind, here's why..." or "I don't like Oblivion, here's why...". But saying "The Elder Scrolls Morrowind is the greatest game in the history of the universe." or "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the greatest game in the history of the universe." or "Skyrim svcks" (okay, I only put that last one in to see if the forum censor picks up on it yet) without a logical reason is quite different.

Who's to say it's ever without logical reason? It's their opinion, they're entitled to it whether you like it or not, or whether they type out a huge essay or not. Now I'm not saying people should just go around and bash a game, or just spam a bunch of threads with "I love this game", but I don't see any reason why somebody can't come onto the Elder Scrolls forum and praise a particular Elder Scrolls game. That's bordering into the realm of control, and around here there's only a select few who have control *looks around, thinking he just saw the shadow of a bear*

The problem is twofold for me: If people bash a game mindlessly I stop taking their criticism seriously, and I end up having a bad taste in my mouth for Morrowind, a game I love. I sometimes get sick of Morrowind due to some blind fans who have lost the ability to debate with nuances. Secondly, it affects the atmosphere of the TES forum, making it to a place that's not a great as it could have been.

Arena -- at least in the form we received it -- was meant to be an RPG. Although Its developers began with the intent of making a gladiator game, they changed their minds during development.

In most cases the problem is not what people say. It's how they say it.

It is not my job to be a mind reader. If someone does not give me a cogent reason for their opinion I am certainly not going to invent one for them. All I have to go on are the words people put into their posts. My life is too short. I don't have the time to "intuit" what a person probably, maybe, might have meant to write. I can only respond to what they did write.

Over the years I have come to a few conclusions about people. It seems to me that the more ignorant a person is, the louder they become. As a person's ignorance rises, so does their need to insist that everything they say is true. Ignorant people aren't interested in reasoned debate. They're interested in winning, in smacking their opponent down, to have the last word. It's a form of verbal PvP.

And frankly, listening to some of them complain about Oblivion I sometimes get the impression that too many of these people are just repeating things they've heard other people say. One person complains about "level scaling" and another person picks it up. Another person picks it up from them. After awhile people throw around the words "level scaling" without knowing what they're talking about.

Morrowind fans are the worse thing that ever happened to Morrowind. Morrowind fans tarnish the very game they hope to promote. This primitive 'I'm right, you're wrong' attitude does Morrowind no good. Human beings do not like to be told that their opinion is wrong, that their opinion is less important than someone else's opinion. This manner of speaking is not designed to open up debate, it is designed to shut down debate - and that makes people angry.

It seems to me that gamers are particularly prone to think in stark, black-and-white, either/or categories ("This svcks," "That rocks"). Instead of saying "I prefer Morrowind," or "I think XXX feature of Morrowind is better than XXX feature of Oblivion and here's why..." gamers are too often prone to state, bluntly, that Morrowind is better than Oblivion.

It is not about "control." It is about courtesy. Now if a person does not want to take the time to type out a "huge essay" that's fine. They have that right. But I also have a right. I have a right to have no respect for that person's opinions.

Some of us like to use stats so that we can't pick the world's hardest lock with 1 lock picking skill and can pick the world's easiest locks with 1 skill...

Okay I wrote up a big response, but the more I though about it the more I realized this has nothing to do with Morrowind, or Oblivion, or the Elder Scrolls. It just has to do with the way a lot of people naturally act. People think their opinion is right (otherwise why would it be their opinion?), and even though I would normally say it's still an opinion no matter what I realize it's still going to strike a chord with people. So I don't really care anymore. If you want to go on saying ridiculous things like "Morrowind fans are the worse thing that ever happened to Morrowind" you can, but while doing so realize that your completely associating things with people that don't deserve to be generalized like that. As if Morrowind fans are the only ones that do that. It's all around, everywhere, in every game that has a big fanbase. And if you want to be picky and complain about how people don't state things to your liking, go ahead, it's your right anyways, isn't it?


[edit] And an actual response to the OP, why shouldn't they use any features from Morrowind? If a feature would fit and make the game better are you saying you wouldn't want it just because it would be associated with Morrowind, and it would be a bad feature just because you didn't enjoy Morrowind as a whole?

To all persons reading this topic;

If you think Morrowind has better GAMEPLAY than Oblivion, you are BLINDED by NOSTALGIA - or just too hardcoe for the current generation of games and should probably take a few years break.

If you think Oblivion has much of an advantage over Morrowind in ANY OTHER WAY, you are a FOOL - or not really an RPG person.

For, you see, the advantages Morrowind has over Oblivion in story, lore, and detail are gigantic - Oblivion, however, manages to be a game that is a heap of fun to play; as opposed to Morrowind where you are bound by the constraints of invisible roleplaying mechanics that are meant to fill in the gaps from the abstractions done in gameplay - an example of this is the combat system, wherein you slash your sword at an enemy and the game tells you "No, you didn't!". Naturally, the system in Oblivion goes in completely the other direction, which isn't good either.
However, Morrowind is a better experience than Oblivion - in the way that the landscapes are unique, the world draws you in, and that the story isn't "GO AND SAVE THE CITY KINGDOM WORLD".

You know what, though? There are OTHER GAMES. Neither Morrowind nor Oblivion do everything right, nor do they each do all things equally well - as shown by the combat system example above.
Just take Oblivion's quest log system - it holds your hand too much The system in Morrowind, however is a book with "Okay, some guy told me to do this. I ought to do it." and nothing else - showing that either your quest-giver thinks you're a wizard that knows exactly where he means by "oh, just a cave in the so-and-so" or that the main character is a MORON who doesn't know how to use a map.
Or, as previously mentioned, lockpicking - in Morrowind, it's poking a chest until it opens; in Oblivion, it's as though you're a master lockpicker, but terrible at compensating for failure. (Oblivion's locks also have the worrying issue of all looking exactly the same on the inside - what, are they just making a bunch of really good locks and then dumbing them down depending on who's buying them?)

If there is one thing Skyrim should take inspiration from, it's MODS.
Let's take a look at the combat system - again - seeing as it's what most people cite as a major difference. Deadly Reflex makes the combat system in Oblivion less about hacking and slashing and more about fighting - while still paying attention to skills! Isn't that better than going either one way or the other?
Now, think about it - there are several really good mods! Sure, some may not be to everyone's taste, but if they end up making the game better as a whole... well, then, why not just take inspiration from that?

Better a fool than being stuck in the past.

I play and enjoy both Morrowind and Oblivion, and yes, there's stuff Morrowind does better. But the world of Oblivion feels much more alive and inhabitable than Morrowind.. I can "live" in the world through my character. He's Arch-Mage of the Mages Guild, has collected magical Ayleid souveniers through his adventuring and collects interesting books, which he has on display in his house in his home "city" of Chorrol. He considers Dar-Ma a close friend (she was just so happy to meet the first time he spoke to her, and when she was kidnapped he couldn't help but save her after hearing the distraught plea from her mother, Seed-Neeus; she even regularly says he's handsome and a hero with a nice upbeat and friendly attitude), and hangs out with her under the Great Oak on occasion. He also likes visiting Leyawiin.

I just don't get the same kinda thing from Morrowind.. you can't buy houses (unless you call slaughtering a building's inhabitants and dropping all your stuff in it as "buying"), almost everywhere was inhabited by xenophobic Dunmer making me feel unwelcome (doesn't help that I play beast races, I'm sure), and interacting with people felt more like reading stationary wikipedia entries than conversing with independent people.

Both are fun in their own way, but Morrowind seems, to me, to have more of an emphasis on adventuring, while Oblivion does on character interaction.

I couldn't agree with you more, this is exactly what I'm trying to get across too in threads like these.

I take that as an insult.

AND because many players haven't played Daggerfall, which did many things even better. Personally I'm mostly complaining how they should take the TES2 aspects and start improving from that.

Daggerfall is better than Morrowind.

(fact)

In the way it's more rpg than morrowind but its worst in every other category.

All that Morrowind's combat was missing were the proper animations and sound effects for missing with a weapon or failing at casting. The feeling of truly being BAD at something (like using a sword) and then slowly improving, is great. It was just the presentation that was lacking.

Nah, I was just joking around. Apparently if you say something is better than Morrowind, there's not a problem. But if we pick on Oblivion, HUGE PROBLEM.

I agree.


Yeah, I feel likewise.

I'm sure many people have figured this out by now. Pretty much damn near every poll on these forums with a Morrowind option leans in favor of Morrowind... almost every. freaking. one. If people are this obsessed with the mechanics and style of ONE game of this whole series so much that they can't accept anything else, then there is no point in those people being on these forums to just complain when Bethesda inevitably does something different. Personally, I find this to be a sick obsession that's not only tarnished the respect I had for Morrowind (Yes, I had respect for it. Ignorance is bliss. Back in the days before I found this forum, I just wanted to love that game and did. I wanted to play the entire series and I didn't see vast differences between them that would divide the fanbase so vehemently. I just loved the game, and Oblivion, and I wanted to love them all and probably would have... as even now, I do, but it's certainly a diminished shadow of the love it could have been) and this series' (yeah, what great fans of the united series... :rolleyes:) supposed fanbase, but I find it as a deterrant from these forums, simply because of how commonly Morrowind is praised as Talos' gift to humanity while Oblivion gets treated as some unbearable piece of crap, by some people. Yes, I do certainly recognize people's valid opinions, yet I also see blind praise taken to the extremes of unwittingly insulting Bethesda's latest Elder Scrolls game on the forums where it, as opposed to the outside world of critics which praises it, should be revered. I'm not referring to constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is great, but I'm referring to just downright disrespect for the game and the bashing of every aspect of it. The Morrowind fanbase has done nothing but instill this hatred for Morrowind within my mind with its failure, as a whole, to promote the game they love by bashing the game I love... coupled with the occasional negative comment about consoles and "casual gamers". That has cemented a flame of hatred for this game within my mind. I also personally find it to be a lesser game than Oblivion, but just finding it to be short of matching the game I hold at the top of my favorite games list is nothing close to being enough to make me hate the game... let alone make me even not love it. No, it's the fanbase. What comments found their way to me when I found some aspects of the game to be to my personal preference over aspects of Oblivion, Daggerfall, and/or Arena, one might ask? I got some things along the line of, and I quote, "glad you've seen the light" in reference to preferring anything over Oblivion from Morrowind. Bluntly put, a decent handful of people from that fanbase should never go into the advertising business.

"Buy this game and play it while leaving the other behind... because your favorite is a vastly inferior game, that's not worthy of the title of RPG, held back by consoles and casual gamers."


What a slogan... and no, I don't think most Morrowind preferrers believe that... not at all. However, a vocal minority seems to believe either part of that statement or all of it, and somehow, it just, coincidentally, of course, angers me. I'm a very strong advocate of respecting differing opinions. Neither game is a better game. For some people, both may be the worst they've ever played. I really don't care. One's opinion is one's opinion. Is it too much to ask for respect for my opinion, in return instead of some of the more... instinctive comments on why Morrowind must, undeniably, be better than Oblivion? Although it is of a lesser amount on these forums, the opposite is far too rude, as well, in my opinion. Disrespect for anyone's preferences is just plain rude, in my opinion. I've wanted to get that out of my mind and into a post for some time, now, but, well, there it is. Think of it what you will.

Some people are indeed nasty. But I will still argue that it is just the timing that is making the "Morrowind lovers" look especially nasty. Of all of the people who loved Morrowind, and signed up for the forums when it came out, only the ones who are here 9 years later are going to be the die hard extreme fans who will take no different. I've read posts from Daggerfall lovers, who had some really nasty things to say about both Morrowind, and Oblivion. It's just how it goes, some people first loved Morrowind, and for some people Morrowind is just tailored to the "perfect" game to them, for whatever reason. But it's still their opinion, and while I'm still saying it doesn't mean they should be rude about it, it doesn't make them "wrong" for thinking it. (not that I'm saying your implying that they are wrong for thinking that)

But what I don't understand is why you would let all of the people who talk horribly about Oblivion, and praise Morrowind make you think any differently about Morrowind? I just don't understand this. No matter what anybody says about either game I will continue to love both, and I will continue to criticize both, and even make fun of both. Elder Scrolls is indeed my favorite video game series (other than Legend of Zelda), but I still don't take it that seriously. They're games, and I enjoy them for what they are.

I still greatly enjoy Morrowind. Those people won't affect my opinion on the game itself, but when I read here often and got "Morrowind is so perfect, and Oblivion is so crap" hit over my head in every other thread I open, I start to associate Morrowind with those type of annoying MW-fans more than I associate it with the great game (especially when it's been a while since I've played it). So eventually, everytime I see the word "Morrowind" I internally cringe. Or sigh. It doesn't make the game any less awesome, it just makes me fed up hearing about it.

Also, Seti said it great. Not that I in any way hate Morrowind, but this black/white parting of the fanbase is just childish and ridiculous, and it lowers the quality of the forum, and the enjoyment I could have had spending more time here.

they shouldn't do what either did. they should do what skyrim does. only a few aspects from both games will be acceptable.

The whole reason people use the "Well In my Opinion Morrowind was better" is all because everyone has different opinions on everything. A lot of people don't respect these opinions and take it farther than it already is. Morrowind was a great game. Oblivion was a great game. Hell both these games have ups and downs it isn't the matter of "OH MY OPINION MATTERS NOT YOURS LOL" the series like any other game has a good game, a bad game, a good game, a bad game. Skyrim will be a great game as well because of the new content and new things that Oblivion and Morrowind didn't have. It's like the whole stupid "Xbox fails PS3 rules" argument. :banghead:

In Oblivion, it's called "shutting-off-your-Active-Quest-log-so-that-marker-doesn't-show-up-on-your-stupid-map."

Really, the developers made it that way for a reason, but some folks still fail to grasp the simple intuitiveness behind it, and then b**** about the game "constantly holding their hand."