Morrowind is a true RPG game, in that it relies completely on your character's skill and not that of the player. Hence the dice-rolling combat, spells not always being successful, no minigames for lockpicking, etc.

I love Morrowind with all my heart, but I'll admit that Oblivion did something right. More player-dependent combat/sneak system, the magic system, skill perks and prettier graphics, namely, though I personally don't give a rat's ass about graphics as long as the game is good. AI was going in the right direction, as well. But with all that shiny and pretty new stuff, Oblivion lost all the feeling of Morrowind. It became boring. Unmodded, I couldn't have played Oblivion for a full six months without putting it down completely.

I liked Morrowind's spell-casting failures, nonregenerating magicka, spears and crossbows (which I would never in a billion years call useless...), having more skills, no minigames, etc. I like the static NPCs, because even they have more personality than the computerized automatic NPCs of Cyrodiil, that all say the same things and in the same voice. In Morrowind, it wasn't as noticeable, because of no voice acting. Morrowind was hard to get into, but it keeps you interested. You feel like you're actually in the world, because of the pains you had to go through to get there. Oblivion was just "okay, to do this all you have to do is follow that medieval GPS color-coded arrow, grab the thing it points to and then follow the arrow back to me".

Morrowind is a world, Oblivion is a game. I hope Skyrim includes elements from both.

Yea, voice acting is not really that great... I think it limits much more than it emphasizes.
And I have not problem whatsoever getting immersed in a game without voices. I actually find it better, as I can imagine myself what voice a character has, thus kind of subconsciously define a personality to the characters that depends on my own.
No voices add a great dimension to immersion, like a book, where your imagination takes the major part, instead of pre recorded voices.

I think for inter-npc gossip, voice acting is cool. But in my opinion they should remove it from interactions with the player.

And that aspect alone makes MW a winner.
Do not forget that you're playing an old game released in 2004.I wonder which game back in that day had the gameplay today's games can offer?
You can look at Gefore 7800 now as a garbage,but it was a 500$ top card as Oblivion was released.But again,why pay so much for a [censored] card that doesn't even have Dx10 support when you have GTX580 right?



Oh and BTW,if you close "use best attack" and thrust with the spears while you move away from the enemy,you'll see how useful it was.

The thing about it is I don't want any new games to be just like Morrowind. I want them to keep the parts of Morrowind (and Oblivion) that didn't svck.

Morrowind is the "winner" here because these forums are filled with the vocal minority who feel the need to defend it while Bethesda tries to bring in more casual players with new, more fun concepts. Morrowind is a good game and if it's your favorite in the series, more power to you. You'll always have Morrowind to go back to should you decide you don't agree with what Bethesda has done with Skyrim. I'm guessing, however, that it's not your favorite because of how it plays. You said it yourself, "and that aspect alone makes MW a winner." That "aspect" being the sense of being lost in an alien world yadda, yadda, yadda. That shouldn't have to change from game to game nor should it. Oblivion was a misstep in that regard because it dropped you in a generic fantasy world with no real culture. Morrowind will always have more of an emotional impact because of its uniqueness but don't let that fool you into thinking Oblivion didn't improve upon the gameplay.

The Elder Scrolls have always been about immersing you in a new world and each game moves more and more towards that in terms of physics, AI, more fluid gameplay, etc. Morrowind did it with it's story/lore which is an aspect that should never be overlooked. Skyrim will hopefully do the same while also improving upon the flawed gameplay of both Morrowing and Oblivion.

The vast majority of people's favorite TES game is morrowind, so if Bethesda makes a game that is very similar to Morrowind it couldn't fail, atleast to TES' fans. I usually don't say anything good about Oblivion because it was worse than Morrowind in most aspects, but it has some better things. Things like skill perks, graphics, combat mechanics, NPC AI were better than in Morrowind. But those things are only secondary, overall Morrowind is much better, so I don't even care about MW not having those things.

Of course Oblivion has the upper hand for "gameplay",but that's only because of the technology.That's not something Bethesda has achieved,not alone at least.It's not like they introduced something BRAND NEW.None of us are saying bethesda should create a game that's like Morrowind tecnology-wise now.However,when you say RPG,the atmosphere is as important.And atmosphere DOES affect the gameplay.
For example,I don't like the idea of fast travelling,but I used it all the time in Oblivion.That's because Oblivion's landscape was damn boring.It was not logical to walk from one city to another because there was nothing but same trees and enemies everywhere.You could see what you were about to encounter from the compass miles away.In Morrowind however,while walking from one city to another,you run over a hill to see the horrific,yet amazing view of a Daedric Ruin appearing from the mist*,totally unexpected.And all of the Daedric ruins were unique,thanks to handcrafted world.So,instead of yelling "No fast travel plz!!!11" I'm yelling "Make it so that I don't ever want to use fast travelling"
Honestly,think of Morrowind made with 2006 tecnology,or Oblivion made with 2004 technology.When they are even technology wise,MW becomes an absolute winner for me.That doesn't mean I didn't like Oblivion nor ignore its technological surperiority.But for me,technological surperiority comes after uniqueness.

Gameplay improvement means more options,better AI,better combat,more things to do and some physics for me.No,graphics don't count for me.In terms of AI,Oblivion wins clearly.Living NPC's FTW.Combat wise,Oblivion of course,though it had flaws.Physics,well I'm not sure.As much as I want them,I don't think Oblivion managed it.Thanks to items going flying when I accidentally touch the table they're laid on,I never managed to have a items gallery like I had in MW.Instead,I stored them in crates and looked at their icons >_> So,Half Life 2 is the clear winner here.More options to do,not sure either.Oblivion's AI gave more options with the NPC but its dull landscape killed dungeon diving.Modded MW with crafting wins I think.
More options,MW again.This is where "useless items" kick in.More skills,more weapons,more items,more of everything.Even if you don't use an item,when you open a crate it enlarges the list of possible loot so the more the item kinds,the slower you get bored of the game.I downloaded MISC ITEMS mods for my Morrowind.You know,items that are absolutely useless,other than adding to the atmosphere =)

So,fixing the physics,getting perks,giving more combat options,yes please.Cropping the skills,removing attributes,making it more and more simple,I cannot see this other than adjustments for potential players who cannot handle more than Life-Mana-Breath actually.Note that I'm not saying you are one.However,I think you are kinda offensive on previous games and "defenders"...


*Note:That mist was also thanks to limited view distance,a technological "disadvantage",and so seems the hand-crafted world XD

Wow long post...

What are you talking about? The only time your Magicka doesn't regenerate is if it is stunted. The only reason I see that Oblivion needed skill perks is because they needed to add something else to help make the horrible leveling system look a little better. Quest Compass!? oh no, you have to use some actual skill in a game! Failing to cast a spell every now and then is realistic. Spears and crossbows just give that extra bit of options.

I don't want them to directly copy Morrowind, I want them to look at Morrowind in terms of Depth, originality, and story telling. Oblivion Lacked depth.

If the travel system could be like Daggerfall's, it would be awesome. In DF, you COULD slow-travel places if you wanted to, but since it was such a HUGE world, doing so often meant hours and hours of game time traveling through barren wilderness. To travel, you brought up the map and found the location (and many locations were inaccessible until you were told it by a questgiver or found a map for it) and chose to get their recklessly or cautiously, staying at inns or camping, by ship or not by ship (if it was overseas). Reckless travel got you there much faster, but when you did get there you might be fatigued (and fatigue didn't replenish until you slept, and if you ran out of it in a hostile place you insta-died), and sleeping in inns cost quite a bit more, but you got there well-rested and at a good time of day (for most cities were closed at night). I think a system like that would be great.

As far as MW vs. OB goes...I'm with MW. But I think this depends on players' backgrounds. I come from a long tradition of RPGs...tabletop D&D, tabletop Star Wars, and an obsessive interest in medieval history etc. Many of my friends who like OB come from more video-game backgrounds, having played FPS games, etc, which are fine. It just seems to me that MW catered more to the hardcoe RPG players, a la D&D, etc., and OB catered more to the twitch-oriented players from diverse video-game backgrounds. In OB, things happened much faster and depended much more on player reflexes than character abilities, whereas in MW things happen slowly and rely almost entirely on character abilities, a la D&D. It seems to me that it was good marketing on Bethesda's part...now they have all kinds of gamers in on TES, not just hardcoe RPG nerds or FPS junkies exclusively.

as much as i didnt like non-regenerating magicka in morrowind you have to be a really awful player for that to even be an issue after level 7 or 8. everything in the first few levels is supposed to be hard. its not like there was a tremendous shortage of potions to buy or that they were expensive and ingredients to make your own potions werent uncommon. seriously, gamers these days expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. so what do you get in oblivion. nearly instant magicka regen which allows spell spamming, quest markers that show us EXACTLY where some object is because some people are incapable of following simple direction given by NPCs. people cant be bothered to walk to a silt strider or a boat and pay for travel so we get instant travel with no cost and no risk at all. maybe in skyrim they should have a button set aside that surrounds your player character in a self-esteem bubble so that they wont die and get their feelings hurt. :rolleyes:

the only things oblivion improved were combat.......which svcked in morrowind and obviously the technical aspects of graphics........art style was still better in morrowind though. im glad that at least in some respects such as spell casting skyrim is moving away from oblivion and maybe hopefully they are changing their approach to game design which lately has been to balance the game around the "challenged gamers" in the world.

as far as background i dont think that holds much water...................i hate tabletop games. i tried them with friend a few times and i was bored to tears. i love FPS games and i even enjoy the online twitch shooters like TF2 although i do prefer more tactical games like the battlefield series. i however want immersion in my games and i dont want easy outs. if i get something then i should have to do somethign ingame for it like a quest or pay for it or there is a downside to using that spell or item or ablity. thats why i liked the stalker games so much. they are actually harder than most other shooters out there today.

Morrowind was an awesome game. So was Oblivion. I'm one of the few forum members who likes both games equally. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Morrowind and Oblivion both had good features, the best of which Bethesda will try to incorporate into Skyrim *unless* they're doing something new.

Now shut up.

Please just let this thread die.

COULD it be that it is just a matter of opinion?

Other than that, MW is far superior game :biggrin:

+1

Anyways this OBLIVON vs SHIVERING ISLES ahem MORROWIND is pointless.

I thought the same exact thing, and unlike many people, I don't really have a preference between the two games. MW had a way cooler environment and plot, no level scaling, more varied weapons and armor, deeper quests, and was more challenging. Oblivion had better combat and magic (im my opinion) and the perks were great.

This isn't an Morrowind versus Oblivion thread. It's a plea to stop talking about Morrowind versus Oblivion. But I'm glad it sparked some debate on the wrong topic and I'm even more glad that it's at the top of these forums. It should probably die now that my Egos been boosted to DEFKANYE 3. Thanks guys and have a happy Skyrim!

As some have said they should look at what people liked in each game and use/build upon that for the next game.I admit I never played Oblivion much because I could not get into it. It didn't give me the feel that MW did the first time I played that. Oblivion (what I played of it) felt like I was having my hand held and pushed off into the quests. Whereas MW I have played without doing any quests. I was free to do anything I wanted. Yes MW had some thing that could be inproved (imo) like graphics and AI and the economy (money was a joke after a few levels). The lockpicking of Oblivion was kinda neat at first but shortly after I would have preferred the MW way. The quest compass was [censored] imo. Just follow the directions the person gave you. And if you still can't find it just hop online for a min and look it up (after which you can facepalm yourself). I don't remember much about Oblivion's travelling methods but MW did fine when they offered teleports, soltstriders and boats to get to most regions. Anyway take what worked the best of each game and make it feel like an open world where we can 'discover' the world.

/facepalm.

Read your OP again.

Now read it again.

Are you telling me that that isn't even in the slightest way inflammatory of Morrowind?

You do not end an argument by saying that the other side is better in every way. That's how you start them.

There are things I love and dislike about all the elder scrolls games. Oblivion had the best combat in my opinion. Daggrfall took second on my list. Arena is actually third strangely enough. And then in last place comes Morrowind.

Morrowind was the funnest map to explore, followed by Oblivion. Oddly enough, once again, Arena was a little more interesting to explore than Daggerfall's map. And both were just sort of repetitive randomized maps where you get nowhere fast on foot.

Daggerfall's dungeons were the best of the series. I consider Arena and Oblivion tied on this one, and Morrowind was... Well, while it is in last place in my opinion, it still had some immersive dungeons. So none of the games particularly lost here.

And between Morrowind and Daggerfall, I think it was a tie between both of there stories. Daggerfall for its heavy political intrigue, and Morrowind for its pacing, lovecraftian feel, and mystery as your character slowly awakens to his or her own destiny. Oblivion's story was epic. I blame the engine for being unable to convey it in the most effective way. And now that I'm playing through Arena's story, I'm actually pretty impressed by it. Its more interesting than I thought it would be in this regard. Boy I can't wait to plant my axe into Jagar's skull.

And last but not least, I think Arena is the most immersive game. Strange choice, I know, considering the graphics. But the way they use words to describe some of the things make me feel like I am in the most awesome D&D solo adventure ever.

There really is something from EVERY game that needs to be preserved. And I think Skyrim is going to add a lot of cool things to the list.

It's inflammatory of Morrowind because that's the sacred cow around here and not always for the right reasons. I never said the other side is better in every way, Morrowind has a more immersive world and a better plot which, as I've also said, is more important than gameplay. I started an argument in the first post because that's how you get people involved in a discussion.

I'm going to intervene in your argument with an argument against your argument, even though I would agree with part of said argument.

I would say that, in a video game, plot is not better than gameplay because gameplay is what the game is about and is what separates games from books or movies, which pretty much have much better plots than video games, anyway. Plot preference is also very subjective as is the level of immersion provided by a world. I, for one, thought Morrowind was a boring wasteland inhabited by 3D children's cartoons. I don't understand what a nix hound is, but it looks ridiculous, in my opinion. As for the plot, Morrowind shared the same linear plot structure that Oblivion had with Oblivion.

Dude, I thought you were cool. :shakehead:

As for Morrowind being a "sacred cow", I have to admit it sort of is. It's the game that got many of us to fall in love with the TES series, and I, for one, happen to think it's probably the best game in the world, even outdated as it is today. It's very close to a lot of peoples' hearts, so they won't hesitate to jump at you if you wrong Morrowind in some way. :glare:

EDIT // Though it depends on how you think a sacred cow is to be treated. Morrowind is better than Oblivion [***in my opinion, of course***], but I confess I might be partially blinded by nostalgia and/or playing Morrowind waaaaay before Oblivion.

EDIT // I didn't even realize I had typed that. So much for being all correct and proper. But yes, I meant that I think Morrowind is preferable to Oblivion.

I don't think fans are treating Morrowind as a Sacred Cow at all. I mean criticizing Morrowind is like me going filling a bug report on MGE 3.0.2. The criticism will focus on the newest one, 3.8.2. And it is perfectly normal for me to ask "1 second static render delay" feature to be removed, so it will be like MGE 3.8.0. Or a remove for the "alpha to coverage" feature or a comeback for underwater static renderings, like the older versions. That also doesn't mean I want all static creation bugs to return or removing new depth enabled effects altogether.

I don't know how some people understand a huge base of fans' criticism as extemporaneous like that, they might be harsh but they are right or I will be there arguing them myself. But I don't, I don't want to be butchered. They have very strong cases. :slap:

Yes. Morrowind is the game of my childhood and I just got off from playing it not too long ago.

It is one flawed, buggy, pile of crap, but I love it. The graphics are pretty outdated, the combat seems to be broken until you finally hit something, and everyone stands around/ paces about for all of eternity.

Now, Oblivion, that was a good game as well. Pretty cool combat and much better AI (though not as good as I had hoped) Like many here, though, it just seemed far easier to grow tired of. I don't believe I have ever finished the main quest because, after getting sidetracked with guilds and such, I had already gotten too bored to carry on. Content-wise, three guilds and the Brotherhood did generate nearly enough game time compared to the same three guilds, the Morag Tong, the three Great Houses, the Imperial Legion, the East Empire Company, the Tribunal, and the Imperial Cult in Morrowind. And damn that stupid, magical compass. NPCs are your compass. It just seems more engrossing when the game world directs you to your destination, not the game itself.