Hey goodfolks.

Why do ppl go in Illusion magic for the thief/assassin archetype? Is it for the CC fear/calm gives? I'm gonna make me a new assassin, and figured I'll ask first.

Also, is it worth all the Stealth-points, when we got Muffle? I'm at least thinking of maxing the visibility while sneaking, and going for the sneak attack perks.

My character is some sort of assassin type and never used Illusion magic. Can't see RP wise to fear some one.

I have invested in all the stealth perks, without the one for daggers, because I don't use them.

I could definitely see a master assassin learning some illusion magic, though they'd probably go more for the archetypal sneak and enchanted weps.

Usually, all Illusion spells including Frenzy, Fear, and Calm can benefit a stealth type in a variety of ways. As an assassin, since you should usually have the jump on your enemies, a well placed Frenzy can thin the ranks quite a bit, allowing you to narrow down a room of, say, 4-5 enemies to maybe 1-2 wounded ones.

A fear can scare people away for an easy sneak attack on a different enemy, or allow you to slip by unnoticed entirely!

A calm can get your foes off your back in time enough to sneak away and re-stealth, or just plain old get away!

I do not know the stealth perks off hand, so I cannot answer the Muffle question. However, I'd say better safe than sorry when dealing with sneak detection. Use Muffle and whatever perks you can snatch up. And, investing in the "Quiet Casting" perk will also improve your ability to remain undetected while casting.

well ive used illusion only for my dagger focused thief and realt for the uses of calm and fury. If there are a group of enemys near each other i would let lose a few furys so they would fight among themselfs till one or two remain then simplay calm them letting me sneak up behide and finshing them off.

illusion is a useful skill tree if your planing a dagger focused thief as it can make sneaking up on enemys so much easier and dealing with group much faster but i wouldnt recomend using it on a archery thief it just doesnt work as well together

Dual sneak attack with 2 daggers instakill even ancient dragons xD. It's just bad that trinkets that increase one-handed damage doesn't do it on daggers at all. My sword damage on paper:58, with trinkets :90. Dagger :52, with trinkets :52. Then again, dual sneak attack with DB gloves is 52x30x2. Yup, instakill.

And spending perks for illusion is a waste. No need for calm and such.
Upping the skill in Obli and casting chameleon was worthwhile though.

Illusion for a Rogue is stupid , your boots already have muffle and your sneak skill eliminates any need for silly invisibility spell

It breaks character to use magic on a Rogue/Assassin/Thief sort..........

Only reason it would make any sense to me is if you were playing a rogue mage , who sneaks around using illusion spells and then ambushes with destruction magic...

Thanks for the answers folks.

This surely made up my mind to put some points in the illusion tree, cause I like to get up close and personal, kill, and vanish back in the shadows again. And this gives me some more options for doing that

Looking forward to get home, make my Breton assassin/thief, and have lots of fun! :celebrate:

Sneaking into a camp and frenzying the entire place down to just one person is incredibly effective. Calm can also get you out of a lot of problems in the wild when travelling.

Illusion is almost as nasty as smithing & enchanting in terms of power. It's utterly stupid.

I see where youre going at. I dont want to use any destruction spells. Maybe I'll just rely on my sneak skills, you also get a shout to distract people. We'll see, but I cant help to play with the thought to play with others mind for my winning.

I'm sure you DON'T realize this but you can do that with Sneak skill alone.....

Frenzy is pretty fun to use, if also pretty overpowered. Its not so bad if you dont take many perks for Illusion, because then it only works on weaker enemies.

Of course when you get down to it Sneak in general is pretty overpowered, the only balancing point is that its difficult to sneak up on something like a Dragon flying overhead.

Okay, what u reckon then? I understand that you want me off the illusion tree.

Max the Stealth instead?

Yeah , and I don't think you're grasping that illusion costs actual magicka to cast , magicka you really don't want to put points in either

The final Sneak perk lets you vanish back into the shadows (over and over and over for free in fact) and also , with 100 in sneak , or even anywhere near there you can practically stand in front of somethings face. Matter of fact , I have stood directly in front of peoples faces and had it say hidden anyway

Its really not that hard to sneak up right behind something if your sneak skill is at least decent

I tell you illusion is blasphemy!

Don't go illusion just for invisibility, you can do that with alchemy. And upping illusion for spells will prolly make you put some points in magicka, which is a waste. Though, not much options what to raise anyway with a sneak.

I may appear like an idiot to you, but I do realize casting magical spells cost magicka.

Okay, then. From beeing pumped about Illusion to not so pumped, I now see that I can manage good without it. It CAN be tho, maybe a life-saver, if your cover is blown, when you really dont want it to happen.

How much percent would you put in magicka/health/stamina? Or, just health/stamina for that matter, since my mastermind can grasp that I wont be casting spells, and magicka is redundant.

Pumping illusion svcks ALL the challenge out of it, seriously.

Group of enemies? Make them attack each other.
Really tough boss? Charm>Backstab>Charm>Backstab>Charm>Backstab>loot


All gone completely pete tong? Invisibility. Start again.
Need more armour? Muffle.

Oh, and silent casting

Invisibility was newer something I looked for in illusion, rather crowd control like fear/calm etc, for making sneak easier, but I think now that I can manage without it, and use those points somewhere else, maybe in alchemy, for poison making and so on

Alchemy will also let you make good poisons - you can make Frenzy and Fear poisons, not to mention remove magicka regeneration poisons so any mage becomes completely helpless for 30 seconds. Almost anything you want to do with magic can be done with poisons and you don't have to put any points into magicka or into any magic skill trees.

Plus of course the potions for invisibility, improving sneak, improving archery skill, etc.

I see where you are going => OP!

I thought the muffle spell just made your armor silent?

Well, I upped stamina until it was 300, then upped health to 200 (because some fights you can't start in sneak if your skill is low. Though with invi potion or fortify health you don't need to up health at all.) then I upped both one after the other and they are now health 300 stamina 420. Magicka 100 xD.

Basically yeah, but that means you're not needing to use light armour/stealth perks to reduce armour noise.

Seriously, don't do it.

I did and the woman is like Anakin wiping out the Sand people, actually he probably had a harder time.

Sure, you have to put points in magicka, but does it really matter THAT much for an assassin character?

Assassins aren't going to get hit that much so health is much less useful than it is for other classes. It will generally come down to this: if you get detected by a strong enemy, you die (even if you put in a bunch more health), if you don't get detected you win without losing any health. Sure, health is helpful against bosses and other enemies you can't sneak up on, but it is undoubtedly less useful than it is for other classes where health is always relevant.

And an assassin will mostly be attacking with single backstabs. Stamina is hardly relevant in this case as you will never run out of stamina in a battle. Meanwhile, you may use a bow, and zooming uses stamina, but that's mostly a convenience and otherwise bows don't use stamina. That really just leaves having stamina for carrying capacity and to sprint for longer. Those are worthy conveniences, but really just conveniences and nothing more.

So what is an assassin REALLY losing by putting some points in magicka. I would argue that the vast majority of the time, an assassin's health and stamina are totally irrelevant.

You have very valid points there, true. But, now that my sneak is 100 I don't level up so fast anymore as my melee skills don't improve that fast as I oneshot everything. So I started to melee ppl to raise my onehanded and light armor skills so I get perks to put in enchanting. And the mobs at my level (52) hurt me, as I don't have any perks in block or armor. So i need health and stamina.
But otherwise than that, your statements are true.