Except it doesn't. The final stealth perk does jack all in my experience.

Stealth only become ridiculous after I got multiple bits of +40% stealth armor enchanted at 100 stealth with all perks. Before that it was perfectly fine. And when you have perfect gear and max skills and perks...well it should be extremely powerful.

And even with +200% stealth at 100 stealth skill, there are plenty of enemies that detect me if I walk in front of them.

Of course nothing detects you if you are using Invis...but that has nothing to do with stealth.

There's a difference between 'making things easier' and outright trivializing the game content. And sneak alone is overpowered; seeing as you can't really have a thief without sneak, thieves are overpowered.

I quit my sneak archer because of this. My enjoyment of the game took a heavy blow because of a lack of proper game balancing. It needs to be fixed. If you want to feel like a god, play on the novice difficulty.

This, sorta. The OP is abusing the combination of the top tier sneak perk (that does what the guy I quoted described, but not as effectively as he thinks) plus high level illusion to go invisible every time he's near being detected.

The problem, as stated by several people, isn't the damage multiplier, it's how easy it can be to become undetectable if you use certain things in combination. If you lowered the damage bonus of the guy in the video to x2, it would just take him longer to kill things. He would still do it without taking a hit using that same cheese tactic, but rather than 1-2 hits it would take 30. End result is the same.

If anything needs to be changed it's 1) the way stealth and invisibility work when combat has already started, and 2) the awareness of secondary (non)combatants. As long as you yourself remain unseen, you can kill one of two NPCs in the middle of a conversation and the one that's still alive doesn't become instantly alert in most cases - with MELEE attacks. Oddly ranged kills are much more likely to alert nearby NPCs or monsters, but if you manage to stab a guy there's less of an alert...

EDIT: One last point. At no time in that video does the guy ever get fully detected with something still alive right next to him. If he did, I guarantee you he would be one-shot on master difficulty. That should be much more likely than it is, and if it was, problem solved. You kill fast, you die faster, without the cheese great care would be needed to not reload every third fight.

I totally disagree, sneak alone is not overpowered.

After playing an assassin, I started a 2h warrior that just charges in and kills stuff much more easily. No stealth required.

Guessed you don't noticed the magic he was using.

Thief don't use magic, none of the thief in game uses magic.

If you are going ahead to say invis + sneak attack is OP. Then I guess, not like there aren't something else that's not OP. Blocking can be OP. Double deadra (sp?) lords can be OP. Werewolf with ring is OP. ... etc..etc..

I am guessing you didn't explore the game much yet?

I didn't get to view the entire video, that's why I was asking questions. I know anything can be OP if you try to do it, I just wanted advice on how to avoid doing it accidentally.

...and notice those things are no longer in TES. I may be reaching here, but I would bet that the devs decided that was "overpowered" (yes, even in a single player game!) and removed them - I'm looking at you, spellmaking. I would also bet that in the next TES game we will see a reworking of these mechanics... Or, more likely, completely removing them because they can't seem to be able to just reduce the synergy of some skills.



With the improved destruction mod on master I'm still finding my pure mage a fun challenge. Without it, I don't see how I could get anything done in the end game.

In almost any rpg you can become a "god" character if build your character correctly. It's not overpowered because it takes time to build those skills and once you do get to where you want to be, Its not overpowered, it just reflects on the progress you've made. On master difficulty dragons/trolls/bears can 1-2 shot me if I'm not careful so I should be able to do the same to them once pick the right perks. If I'm not strong after I pick perks to enhance my playstyle whats the point in perks? Do you really want a game where you become the best in a certain skill but everything still overpowers you? Where is the sense of progress? You will still feel like your level 2. I think you should play dark souls if your that hardcoe.

Why do we need to face dragons on Master to get a challenge?
So you mean once per two hours we get a challenging fight?

Im in the same boat with my dual wield orc.
I 1 shoot giants on Master. I dont have enchanted gear, only smithed gear, self smithed.
I actually stopped playing my orc warrior cause the game was just too easy. After 50 hrs I gave up. Im now trying a destruction mage.

Elder dragons, are extremly hard for me as close combat melee on expert and master.
Frost dragons and elder dragons...

But Im ok with that.
I just want the other 99.999999999999% of the encounters to atleast put up a fight. Even on Master its generally too easy.
Once in a while you encounter a tough encounter.

I guess I wish too much that game developers should look at Demon Souls and Dark Souls as their holy bible how combat should be.
Hard, tough and unforgiving.

Thats ok for you to feel this way, and its ok for players that want to play this, to keep staying on "easy" or in this case on "adept". But when you choose expert or master level you expect the enemies to put up more of a fight then they currently are.

I dont mind being able to be overpowered on the easier settings but when I choose to play on Expert or Master I want to have a hard time. Skyrim does not offer that.

In all fairness I think they got the damage spot on from enemies on Expert and Master.
But their lifes needs to be doubled for expert and tripled for master.

Crouching right in front of an enemy with 100 sneak and only 1 point in the initial harder to detect perk, and still being undetected is kind of dumb...especially in a decently lit area. The Ai is just too stupid and forgiving, and is actually a step back it seems from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

Shadow warrior has to be bugged. They cannot have possibly intended you to be able to repeatedly crouch and attempt to sneak attack your target until it works. Sneak attack windows in general are too large. Should only be possible while completely hidden.

Also, 15x sneak attack alone killing even the strongest enemies on master difficulty with unenchanted weapons and 2 - 3 points in the one hand damage increase perk can't be right.

Yes, warriors are also overpowered. Point?

This is only possible in dungeons. Try that outdoors and see if it works.



Well it does seem cheesy, but you are still exposing yourself to enemy attacks by doing it that way.



I find that hard to believe because there are already a few enemies that I cannot 1-shot. And I am only playing on Adept difficulty.

This, the thoughest enemies don't die to a single sneak attack. Especially if you don't use smithing to improve weapons. The video just shows someone abusing the crap out of invisibility and I certainly don't believe the game in the video is on master difficulty.

Also, the One-handed perk doesn't affect daggers as far as I know.

1. Maybe so, I have been dungeon delving quite a bit lately, however it is still inexcusable that it appears lighting is not accounted for indoors as far as exposing the player goes.

2. It really isn't that difficult, I can just repeatedly duck and hit until I register a sneak attack. It's so cheesy that I've decided not to take that perk with any of my next characters unless they alter it to better match the description.

3. I'm using one daedric dagger at legendary quality with Mehrunes razor, and can 1 hit Draugr deathlords without the 30x backstab on master. I deal enough damage at the moment to kill Shadowmere in 3 hits without sneaking using just daggers.

This isn't even with the blacksmithing/enchanting loopholes.

(Sadly?) Sneak and illusion are probably the easiest skills to level ever. You could get 100/100 with them without ever entering combat, or be anywhere near combat.


I can't remember who posted it, but someone said it's not the damage but the mechanic and I can confirm this is 100% true as I can do exactly the same thing with no perks in sneak at all, just using illusion spells. It's an AI fail for the most part.

Then whose fault is that? That's called exploiting the system, If you play fair then those skills will take the same time as any other skills.

Well, hardly...if you're sneaking you're not going to be seen and sneak + muffle is pretty good sneaking and it levels both trees.

Just not in the same league as destruction, conjuration, weapon skills where you need to at least be in danger for the skills to tick over. It fits with the spirit of the sneaky/illusion skill but they're definitely the easiest to level, period. With or without 'exploiting'.

For chrissakes.

Picking up the damned controller is overpowered.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people making these kinds of complaints would cry to no end that having a queen in Chess is overpowered.

The main point of a stealth-based character is that their primary strength and advantage is their stealth. Maybe you noticed that the perk tree is based around...STEALTH?

When you take away the stealth factor, you pretty much have the weakest character around.

And when you play to the strengths of the character, i.e. rely on sneak attack crits as a stealth character, and do so effectively, you are going to be powerful. But without those sneak attack crits, you're just a weak child playing at a man's game.

Like I said before, this is absurd as stating that being the Warrior archetype is overpowered because he can put on heavy armor, take a beating with hardly a sweat, and bash things dead with a big sword or hammer.

Playing to the strengths of your perks and your character type is not overpowered.

It would be overpowered if you were playing AGAINST the strengths of your character.

I.E. IF YOU CHOSE STEALTH PERKS BUT WORE MAGE ROBES, SWUNG A WARHAMMER, AND DIDN'T TRY TO SNEAK, AND YOU STILL OWNED EVERYTHING.

THAT. THAT IS OVERPOWERED.

I think I'm going to just start spending more time playing the damn game while I can still enjoy it before all the forum gamers ruin it with their incessant whining, because I certainly can't enjoy trying to find a fun discussion about positive things in the game with so much goddamned whining and crying about how everything is overpowered.

PICKING UP THE CONTROLLER IS OVERPOWERED. NERF THE CONTROLLER.

I am fairly certain that is currently possible. Even on master difficulty.

Dude, he did take away the stealth factor. That's the whole problem. He'd manipulated the perks system to the extent where he had absolutely no reason to sneak or attempt anything even resembling stealth at all, yet he was still completely unseen and able to take down every enemy in just a few hits.

Why are so many people replying when it sounds like they haven't even watched the video?

1. I think lighting is taken into account. The dungeon may "appear" bright to you, but it could actually be very dark in terms of mechanics. But they cannot mimic the very dark mechanics, because then you as the player cannot see anything.

2. You could limit yourself and only use it to escape.

3. That's not OP, that's intended, because if you tried to take on the Draugr deathlords in open combat, they will 2-shot you. That's the playstyle of the assassin, a glass cannon that does a lot of damage, but also very fragile.

I can do it seen, from about level...what was I...lets call it 15. The only reason I even hit the 'sneak' button at all was for the 3x damage on a bound weapon to speed it up a bit.

Sneaking isn't the problem and neither is the damage, there's lot of ways to become stupidly powerful/stupidly easy to progress. It happens. Not a lot of point getting too bent out of shape about it.

At the end of the day, imo, the buck stops with the player about what they are/are not prepared to use.

Thief / Assassin is not broken , its just incredibly great and too much fun to play, I am one myself. Yes when you get DB gloves you become insanely magnificient but still an Assassin dont have much sustainibility. If you are detected then your fights become hard and thief / assassin progress is slow too because most of the times you are in stealth and you move slow, where as a heavy plated knight with restoration can storm any place much faster and take a much larger number of enemies head on compared to your thief.

Same. I have tested this exact same set of equipment and it is no 100% camouflage. You can still be detected in very well light areas. And stacking so much sneak lowers your damage output via weapon skill enchantments and survivability via magic resistance. It is strong, but not anymore than some of the other builds I can name.