Oblivion: 21 skills
Skyrim: 18 skills

21
-18
-------
3

And just because you didn't use it doesn't make it useless.

Three, not four. And I used it, and I loved the skill. It needs an overhaul, and Fallout 3 and NV both added a lot to unarmed combat. Its headed in a possitive direction, not a negative one.

Archery was useless if you ask me. Enemies looked rediculous, due to arrows doing so little damage. Only positive it had was range. But did they get rid of it? No, it got an overhaul. Just because I feel it is useless, doesn't mean it should get the axe. Hand to hand should get just as big an overhaul as the other combat styles did. I don't see how they could litteraly add to each combat style, besides Hand to hand. Why would they leave that one alone? It doesn't make sense to me. Does that mean its in? No. Does that mean its out, no.

We don't know anything yet, but I don't see how people can find a combat style completely useless. Even for me and archery, I feel it was redundant, but I could see its uses.

I'm pretty sure Todd said that they'd just spread them out to the other categories. So you have nothing to fear.


Bethesda seems to think so... :glare:

Here's the list of skills in my head at the moment:
One-handed, Two-handed, Armor, Block, Smithing, ?
Destruction, Alteration, Illusion, Conjuration, Restoration, Enchanting
Alchemy, Stealth (Sneak + Security), Marksman, Athletics (with Acrobatics merged in), Speechcraft (with Mercentile merged in), ?

The two ? are up for debate. The one from combat could have something to do with hand-to-hand, while the one in stealth is anybody's guess. It's possible they won't merge Athletics with Acrobatcis due to the new sprinting ability.

Why would shield be under one-handed?
Would you become better at using shields if you dual-wielded two weapons? no...



21
-18
+1 (Enchant is added)
------
4

Four Oblivion Skills are gone/merged.
My bet is that Mysticism, Acrobatics, Athletics & Mercantile are removed. (Mercantile being merged with Speechcraft.)

Close but I expect the skill list will be

one handed weapons two handed weapons smithing armor block something

destruction alteration illusion conjuration restoration enchanting

alchemy sneak security archery mercantile speechcraft

Actually, probably not. Light and Heavy will most likely be different.

I don't know about that. Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense for Light and Heavy Armor to be merged into one skill, and then differentiated through perk choices. And hey, if they end up doing that, we might even get medium armor back!

This is just a hunch, but I have a feeling Athletics, Acrobatics and Hand-to-Hand all got merged under one skill, with the possible inclusion of unarmored perks. I think that, logically, all of those skills belong together.

I don't know about that. Hand to hand deals with combat, while athletics deals with running and possibly jumping. Running and jumping may help your physical strength grow, but it wouldn't increase you're knowledge of combat.

A master of a shortsword can use a mace, not because using a mace is extreamly similar to a shortsword, but because you're skilled with one armed weapons in combat. Along with getting experience with short swords, you're also gaining combat experience that can be aplied when forced to use a mace.

That doens't work with Hand to Hand and Athletics. There's no knowledge of combat that can cross the boundry. Hand to Hand deals with combat directly, while Athletics is just a support. I don't think the two can mix.

Yeah, and considering that it's around 280 Perks (Including Perk Ranks), there's bound to be more than just the "Increase damage...", the weapon perks and magic perks.
Unarmored Perks, Armor Perks (Light, Medium, Heavy), Jumping Perks (Higher and Longer), Silent Footsteps Perk(Confirmed), Perk that increases movement speed are among those I want to see!

The problem with Security is the number of possible perks. With what is in Oblivion, picking locks (pickpocket seemed to unfortunately be a part of sneak) can you come up with 10 perks? Unless something is added to it such as traps security will disapear becomming a perk within Sneak for those players who wish to improve their luck at whatever lock picking minigame is in (Personally I think they are not really compatible, but how can Security stay. I will be shocked if Acrobatics is anything but a multi-level perk under another skill. I would guess an Athletics or Physical Fitness related skill but someone earlier had a good reason for dropping that too (always used, which was why in Oblivion my non-Athletic characters always rode horses).

Edit:
Kefka. had the athletics comment

As for the number of perks I believe the GameInformer podcast said that there were about 280 at present.

Aside from Enchant replacing Mysticism, my guess is that 1H and 2H replace Blade, Blunt, and Hand to Hand. So that's one down. I'm guessing that Mercantile gets rolled into Speechcraft, and I'm hoping that the armor skills are merged. Otherwise, I suspect that Athletics and Acrobatics get merged, or one of them gets dropped.

That's a good point, but I'm really not entirely sure where else hand-to-hand would go. It's definitely not a one-handed weapon, and it makes even less sense for it to be included with two-handed weapons. I really don't think they got rid of unarmed combat, and it has to tie to a skill for your base damage to increase. At least with Athletics/Acrobatics you can make the argument that increased physical conditioning would improve your unarmed fighting. Even if its not the best explanation there is, it makes a lot more sense than throwing it in with one of the weapon skills.

Why can't it have its own skill still? Its combate style is to different to throw into another skill. You have to be light on your feet, because the block does little to nothing. Two handers are bulky weapons, where it would be pretty hard to dance around the enemy and swing the weapon while holding onto your balance. One handed weapons are too different as well. Though they have to be quicker than a two handed weapons user, they can use shields or their weapons to block.

Hand to hand only has ever gotten a defencive addition with gauntlets, which for some reason dont add to damage delt as well as defence, not to mention everyone else could use the defencive addition gauntlets give as well. So you have to get inside quickly, deal what damage you can, and then retreat back until the enemy opens up again. That combat style is diferent enough in my mind to mean it will be keeping its own skill.

Well... there's only 18 now, and we know two have been added. So there are at least five skills that have been dropped or incorporated into another skill. I think Mysticism is the only one we know of for sure that has been dropped. Enchanting and Smithing have been added. It would make sense to combine Athletics and Acrobatics though.

Honestly, I agree with this, but I just don't think hand-to-hand is going to get it's own skill, especially if the number of perks per skill are relatively evenly distributed. For example, say there's roughly 15 perks per skill. That would mean that one-handed swords, axes and maces would get roughly 5 perks each, while hand-to-hand would get 15. Is it really possible to justify having hand-to-hand have three times the amount of perks as, say, one-handed axes?

That's why I think hand-to-hand will be combined with something at least, and I think if it is combined with something then athletics and acrobatics is the most logical choice.

Well, I think Armorer has been replaced by Smithing, thus leaving us with 4 removed skills again.
Blocking has probably been replaced by Shields (or something similar), since shields are not only about blocking anymore.

my guess

Combat:

One Handed
Two Handed
Block
heavy/medium armor
Smithing
hand to hand

Magic:

Alteration
Conjuration
Destruction
Enchanting
Illusion
Restoration

Stealth:

Alchemy
Marksman
persuasion (Barter/speech craft)
stealth (Sneak/acrobatics)
security
light armor

could be wrong about armor, they could have merged it.

Well, it would be fair by making up for the past few games that didn't level up the the attention the other combat skills got. But I know what you mean. I'm not sure what they will do. Maybe Hand to Hand will get different weapons to help. Few perks for claws, some for gauntlets, and some that add some unique moves/counters. Veronica's Scribe counter was pretty cool, actually gave a partial reason to block with your hands.

To be honest, I would be happy just with gauntlets increasing damage delt, the game allowing me to enchant gauntlets to deal some elemental damage on touch, and then Hand to Hand got tied into athletics. If it just gets tied in, but we get nothing to help make hand to hand feel more unique, I'll be disapointed.

I'd personally be less surprised if they merged the armor skills than the sneak/security.

After all, with perks more like skill trees you'd be able to have your advantages engraved in there, while the armor themselves provide static differences.

Here's my best guess...

Acrobatics - Probably still in. (+1)
Alchemy - Still in. (+1)
Alteration - Still in. (+1)
Armorer - Probably included in new Smithing skill. (-1)
Athletics - Probably added to Acrobatics or deemed redundant due to Speed and Endurance attributes. (-1)
Blade - Combined with Blunt, into a Weapon skill with different perk trees for various weapon types. (-1)
Block - Still in I think. (+1)
Blunt - Combined with Blade... (-1)
Conjuration - Still in. (+1)
Destruction - Still in. (+1)
Hand to Hand - Probably combined with acrobatics. (-1)
Heavy Armor - Probably combined with Light Armor into and Armor skill with branching perk trees. (-1)
Illusion - Still in. (+1)
Light Armor - Probably combined with Heavy Armor... (-1)
Marksman - Still in. (+1)
Mercantile - Probably combined with Speechcraft (-1)
Mysticism - Gone... probably combined with Illusion and Alteration. (-1)
Restoration - Still in. (+1)
Security - Still in. (+1)
Sneak - Still in. (+1)
Speechcraft - Still in. (+1)

Ok... there's 12 skills still in and 9 gone or combined with others.

Enchanting - NEW (+1)
Smithing - NEW... Replaces Armorer, adds item creation abilities. (+1)
Weapon - NEW... Combines Blade and Blunt. (+1)

Ok... there's 15 skills. That means there could be three more unknown NEW skills!

If they return traps then Security may in fact be left as a standalone skill.

I think Security and Sneak will remain separate skills... not sure though. If they are combined into a "Stealth" skill, that means there might be up to four NEW skills we haven't seen yet.

Enchanting was added, so thats makes it four.

combat:

one hand
two hand: hand two hand
armor: light armor-heavy armor
smith: armorer
dodging: block-athletics
?

stealth:

archery
alchemy: cooking
persuasion: barter-speechcraft-mercantile
security: traps-lockpick-pickpocket
stealth: acrobatics-climbing
?

magic:

alteration
conjuration
illusion
restoration
destruction
enchanting

:thumbsup: :drool: :tongue: