The inherently ridiculous nature of featuring a faction called the Minutemen toting around laser muskets in post-apocalyptic Boston is the issue. There is no amount of in universe justification that is not going to make that a completely over the top and cartoonish idea.

I mean a ridiculous and cartoonish game world can work but let's not pretend that isn't what this is.

A few things:

-The recharger rifle struggled to kill basic fiends and ants while the Laser Musket was obliterating targets with one hit.

-The crank operates on the same plane of logic the GECK, Bio med Gel, and ZAX computer operate on. I.E. non-existent explanations on how in the world they could ever work outside of the Fallout universe. "It just works ^tm."

-Your closing example is flawed because your comparison is trumped by some jack off bringing a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5jufwSqm8, and the other guy bringing a https://youtu.be/BIPCn-aYMoM?t=31s. Why would you equip yourself with projectile, slug based weapons instead of plasma weaponry that can royally melt your armor and ass in a hurry in the Fallout universe?

The musket is just a familiar item that mucks [censored] up and is meant to add flair to the Commonwealth minutemen. It's iconic to an era and perhaps a metaphor for the legitimacy of [censored], dated concepts being viable in the future. There are too many instances of out-dated technology being used and still being effective. Come on dude, they have t-51b power armor running on a 1,000 year supply of fuel, while the Robco computer's have 64k ram. What in the world?

Why not? They probably named it the laser musket (as Treasure Planet parallels aside, it's not a smoothbore flintlock muzzleloader like the term usually applies to) to go along with their Minutemen shtick, itself probably a reference to remaining fragments of their city's history.

In a remotely serious world militias don't have shticks which is my point.

In a remotely serious world we don't have Elvis impersonator themed gangs either.

I don't disagree. New Vegas' gameworld wasn't particularly serious. Although in fairness to the Kings the physical appearance was the beginning and end of the Elvis theme. They weren't wandering around with guns shaped like electric guitars called Newport killers (Yes I know that has nothing to do with Elvis and wasn't at Woodstock as it turns out).

I think the Laser Muskets make sense, ammo is supposed to be scarce and so are weapons. These muskets are makeshift, someone that learned enough about electricity and standard handy man stuff decided they could make these weapons cheap using surplus parts they can probably get from all over. The weapon probably won't be that strong, however it would be cheaper than every body having an assault rifle. Assault rifles would require ammo, ammo is expensive and hard to come across; Besides that i imagine the weapon serves its purpose well enough in combat. Most raiders like most wastelanders don't exactly have the best arsenal or a surplus of ammo so with a crank rifle you could out last your enemy in a firefight.

^ Agreed!

I would speculate, that since this was an early showing from Bethesda, this happens early on, chronologically in the game. If this is true, then it is safe to assume this is not a high powered weapon. Maybe even something like the Varmint Rifle in NV.

It makes due in a pinch, but as we know from the demo, they are getting their asses handed to them and don't have enough firepower (because low powered weapons, with a slow rate of fire?) and need your help.

True, but the presence of a Redcoat Ghoul makes me worried that we're going to be seeing a quest line that will play like the Revolutionary War's greatest hits, with recognizable events being replicated and blurred together because they're recognizable to us but without any real motivation in-universe.

See, this is an example of why proper context is needed. If the Minutemen and their laser musket have proper context and in-universe story justification, everything will be just peachy between me and Bethesda. Like my enumerated points said, I'm mostly concerned that the gun is a musket for the sake of a gimmick and they keep using it "because reasons" despite the fact that they're losing members left and right.

I have worries just like anyone else.
I just can't see throwing the baby out with the bath water just yet.
Mostly what I have had issue with in this thread is the insistence that these factions cannot fit.

I am not saying Bethesda couldn't screw the pooch on this, they very well could.
They could be thought out and do justice as well, though.
I merely don't see the need to lean too far into either optimism or cynicism; I'm trying to be objective about this all pretty much from here until release.
Cheers

When people are trying to sell me something, I often find it best to be cynical rather than optimistic. Especially when they talk out of both sides of their mouths (telling us how much work they've put into the story yet refusing to give most anything they show context). I was really optimistic about how Skyrim would run on my PS3, because Bethesda made a point of telling me it would run well on my PS3. And then...

Regardless of whether or not the Minutemen are utter garbage or the greatest addition to Fallout's lore since Mr. House, one thing will certainly be true.

It has been said again and again: there is a difference between inexact reinterpretations of Old World symbols, and the exact interpretations. In Fallout, the past is dead and forgotten, there can't be a faction that adopt the name and rules and modus operandi of Old World factions (enclave, brotherhood and mormons never actually died, they are exceptions, and even them changed in some way). What the Kings are it's a parody of what Elvis was. Idem for the Legion and the NCR. In Bethesda fallouts, this central concept of Fallout it's ignored: the past is still alive and kicking. In the REAL Fallouts, it's not: there is a whole New Vegas dlc orbiting this concept, but it seems like Bethesda didn't get it. Perhaps they can't understand and they are not cut for a franchise they didn't develop from the start.

You misunderstand Caesar's Legion... It was not a parody on the Romans. Caesar very well knows all details about the Roman Republic and the real Caesar. He tried to copy the whole system, because he thought it was the best system to have for his goals.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. The NCR and Caesar were founded on societal institutions of Old (ancient) World concepts. The past isn't dead and forgotten. If that were true in anyway the various factions would not have modeled themselves after the old world symbols.

The King's gang has no idea who Elvis is, they only know him by the name King. For all they know it was a place of worship so they look at Elvis as some kind of old world deity. They're not parodying Elvis, they're literally worshipping his image.

The statement that Bethesda is ignoring the "central concept" of Fallout is out in the left field. You cite New Vegas dlc (I'm going to assume Lonesome Road) as harboring this concept, yet the base game contradicts that because the old world is still alive and kicking: NCR, Legion, Kings, Khans, Chairmen, White Glove Society, Omertas.

NCR = Old world California government

Legion = Roman civilization

Khans = Genghis Khan's golden horde

Kings = Elvis worship

Chairmen = Greasers

Omerta = Italian Mafioso

White Glove Society = Posh, elitist consumptionists

Like, what is this REAL Fallout you're talking about? Even the Enclave in the original games and the current iteration believes itself to be an extension of the United States Government. Most of the organization draws descendents from the original political cabinet before [censored] hit the fan. They literally thought that once the bombs were dropped, the top-tier officials would come out swinging and destroy communism and reunite the lands. This screams old world clinginess. So, please, can you elaborate on what it is you're trying to say? Because all I'm seeing is deep-seated resentment for Bethesda piloting the franchise.

Edit: Adding to my post, I feel that Awesomepossum sums it up really well.

If its anything like

-Owen Lyons

-Sarah Lyons

-Augustus Autumn

-John Henry Eden

Its actually some not-so-subtle reference to whatever real world person(s), or mythology, that character is based on

Owen = Young Warrior/Noble.

Sarah = Princess

Lyons = Lyonesse, a kingdom in Arthurian Mythology that was allied to Arthur.

King/Noble/Warrior(Owen) Lyonesse, and his Daughter, Princess (Sarah) Lyonesse, are allies of (King) Arthur Maxson

Augustus = The founder of the Roman Empire, and a title given to Roman emperors

Autumn = A period of maturity verging on decline.

Augustus Autumn is the true human Emperor(leader) of the declining Enclave.

John = The grace or mercy of the Lord.

Henry = Rule his home

Eden = place of pleasure

J.H.E. views himself as the graceful/merciful ruler of raven Rock/The Enclave, who seeks to bring an Eden to the world for all pure humans.

Preston Garvey means

Preston = Priest's Town

Garvey = rough/rough peace

Preston Garvey in-game is trying to help several people find a new place to live, he is the leader, the person whose orders they follow, and, in the wasteland, all peace is rough, due to things like raider attacks and the like.

Perhaps Fallout? The game that started the entire series? Like it or hate it this old world focus (and a really Flanderized interpretation of the old world in Fallout to boot) really took off with Fallout 3. The sole significant presence of the old world in the new in the original games was in Fallout 2 with the Enclave and they were antagonists who were trying to murder everyone, the Chosen One nuked them into oblivion, literally no one outside the Enclave gave two [censored] about the United States of America or the pre-war world and they were more 90s shadow government than 50s McCarthyite inspired.

NCR are savages trying to reestablish the Old World Republic. They fail hard as you see in New Vegas, first the NCR was a monarchy, now they elect incompetent but known idiots as presidents and corruption and inefficiencies are everywhere, as you would expect from an devoluted tribe that chose not to be rule by an allpowerful king.

The Romans weren't nomads like the Legion. They weren't against technological and medical advancement, on the contrary. Edward maybe knows very well the story, but it changed the nature of the ancient empire to fit his goals. Anyway, the reasons why he adopted that symbol fits very well and is properly explained, Obsidian didn't drop them without making up a story for it, as Bethesda do.

Khans have no memory of who Gengis Khan was. They gave themselves that name when they escaped the vault. Perhaps they knew back then who the mongolians were, as in vaults people use to be properly instructed, but by the year 2287 they don't know anymore who inspired the tribe. You have to give them a book to recall them the true history.

The Kings don't know who Elvis were, they barely adopted his style. Already talked about this.

The casinos tribes were educated by Mr. House, an Old World man who wanted themed casinos. The tribes had no clues of what mafia was or who the white gloves were. They were tribals without history behind them.

I already told the Enclave are an exception. You didn't even read my post properly. Because you don't care, you already made up your mind and those mediocre bethesda writers to you know how to make up a proper fallour world (lmao). I won't waste anymore time with you.

Problem is most of the people are like you, they discoverd fallout with the third "game" and the bethesda "concept" is their real concept. That's what is destroying the franchise.

The Minutemen and their Old World Blues:

What I fail to see is how the east coast's obsession with the old world is in any way a problem.

Americana in general is nothing to be worried about in Fallout. The Fallout world is plagued with Old World Blues, ghosts of the past generally dictate the events of any Fallout game, literally and figuratively. Everything is historically rooted.

The Old World Blues is understandable, especially since it highlights the limitless narcissism of the pre-war era, which leads to glorification of its symbols (which are partly historical by today's standards, mythical by Fallout's) even after the fall of the once great nation. It also showcases a contrary version of Old World Blues to the NCR and in general a contrary evolution to the west.

What's important is that the here and now of the people (the interactive opportunity) and their plans, hopes, dreams, struggles for the future aren't profound.

The Laser Musket:

Depends on the execution. It's not generally a bad idea and it gives the Minutemen superficial identity - which is reasonable.

The legion isn't nomadic. They are in a war. Do you ever read Caesar's Bellum Gallicum or Bellum Civile? Caesar's legion isn't nomadic. They are at war and do fight like the real Romans. Caesar's legion is very much based on the Gallic wars and the civil war.

But as we said... the past isn't gone. The past is still present and alive for people with knowledge. Of course the common people don't know much... Like the most people today know not much about the middle ages. But if you want knowledge about the past you can get it.

Considering the amount of celebrity worship there is in reality, I could definitely see how a group of ignorant people living in a serious post-apoclayptic world who stumbled across a school of impersonation might perceive someone like Elvis as a sort of pre-war God. The Kings barely know anything about Elvis, and their entire subculture is based around a misunderstanding that he was more than he actually was. Ultra hardcoe serious? No, but definitely believable.

Not that I'm here to bash the Minutemen. I'm withholding my judgment on them until we actually know something. The laser muskets are silly, definitely sillier than anything in New Vegas, but we don't know anything about the backstory of the organization itself. Caesar's Legion appears just as ridiculous at first glance, but they were more than adequately explained as having been formed by a scholar with access to historical textbooks who thought he understood the Roman Empire, and decided to use his interpretation as a template for a new order. The Minutemen could have just as adequate a backstory, Bethesda faction or no.

For all the "Preston Garvey" people;
Off the top of my head I don't know what significance Garvey has, but Thomas Preston was the British Captain who ordered the Boston Massacre.

I haven't read through this whole thread, only the first 3 pages. But what if the "laser musket" is simply more durable then other weapons in the game and they use them because they know they can rely on them, and they would probably be able to buy them cheaply to because most people (as shown in this thread) would see them as impractical for most uses.

The problem is, it appears that the laser musket uses the front end of a regular AER9 laser rifle. In lore, that's the crystal housing array, which is the most delicate part of the weapon. The crank just makes absolutely no sense internally or externally.

I hope we can wipe out the group, would hurt roleplaying if we can't for story purposes. New Vegas did it right, have multiple factions, have a backup option if things go completely wrong. Even Morrowind had a backup option in case you killed Vivec.

There are an awful lot of assumptions in this thread about the minutemen. From the demo, they seemed to be just a small group of desperate people, out of resources and holed up in a museum. The laser-musket that the player picks up may well be a display piece from said museum. There is nothing to say that they're doing some historical re-enactment schtick--they're not all dressed up like revolutionary war heroes, and they don't necessarily all use laser muskets. Even if they do, it may simply be that they have limited access to weapons and ammo, so a hand-cranked ammo-less rifle is what works best for their situation.

As far as the laser-musket itself, I don't see how it makes any less sense within the fiction than a recharge rifle. Maybe it is simply a recharge rifle in which the recharge mechanism has ceased to function automatically, and needs to be cranked to do its thing.

In both cases, we don't know enough of the back-story to start complaining about the writing just yet.