I think we need a better perk system : Fallout 4

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:36 am

As many of you have noticed, the excessive synthesis and almost "similarity" with Skyrim, it was a bit disappointing.

What was the need to do similar to Skyrim's skill system? Why it was not possible to preserve the old skills from Fallout, and use them in a smart way?

So we could combine once again our SPECIAL and skills, in order to unlock the perk available. After all Skills determine our specialization in a particular branch for our survival skills, and how to interact in the world of Fallout. While the initial SPECIAL was to offer a "starter" for the initial bonus skill points.

But in Fallout 4 this is not the case. Since we only have special points to spend on perks or continuously in our SPECIAL. Only to unlock other perks. All this, synthesized in a poster that does not allow you to add other perks, in the case of new dlc.

I think this could be a lot better if Bethesda spared the skills. I think you could replace the perks poster with "Vault Tec Badge". In this way allowed players to select new perks, once you reach the necessary requirements to unlock it. Just as in the various Fallout, and as in FO3 and FNV.

But, there is another problem: Bethesda tends to create often "boring" perks, or often unnecessary. Because the perks should be a way to "hack" the game and get advantages that we do not find anywhere else. And Fallout New Vegas give a good example about the "hack perks".

And also offered rewards once we have completed challenges and secret challenges, which was not bad, as were rewards that increased our losses, strength, related bonuses, to food, water and medicine.

While in FO4, we get these "bonus" via magazines, bobblehead, and using weapons, armor and special mod.

Ok, it's a fun way to explore Boston: collect them all. But always it is missing that feeling of challenge that we have tried in FNV: shoot, kill, tip, drink, play, have fun. And when we have done enough, we get that special perk.

Why not reuse them also? In addition, returning on the skills, I wonder why there isn't e a specialization? Although 1 to 100 we build up our own "knowledge" on that perk; why not add ramifications that allow you to better understand our skills. Of course, in this way we would have a skill tree, just like in Skyrim. And I admit that it was well done.

Of course, the perk would still have their advantages, but as I said before is only a "life hack" into the game.

And for you? What's your opinion about skills and perks?

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:18 am

I actually really like the new perk system. I feel like I'm working towards something I want and feel a progression. 3/NV just felt like "ayyyy you leveled up pick something from this obnoxiously long list"

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:05 pm

I like the perk layout of FO4 over the tree in Skyrim.

What I didn't like, was the copy/paste of the lock picking system from Skyrim. I mean, damn. It wasn't that great in Skyrim, and now all over again with FO4? I feel they should have just stuck with hacking to open everything if they didn't want to build a new lock picking system.

My next play through when survival comes out, I will be skipping all the locked stuff... I'm done with it.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:29 pm

Isn't the lock picking system the same as it was in 3/NV? They've never done just hacking to open everything which is good cuz I personally hate the "hacking" mechanic

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:58 am

Its fine besides they are not going to be trashing the current system for a new one in fallout 4 or any dlc you'll have better luck waiting for the next game and see what they do.

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:45 am

This has definately had a few heated debates in the past, but overall I somewhat agree with you. There are things about the new system that I really like, in fact I somewhat agreed with Bethesda's move on skills, Skills needed to go, at least in the way that they were done in the past.

Personally my perfect system is one where Skills are combined with SPECIALs in a cross grid to give you perks. Except in this system the perks in addition to your SPECIAL level up your skills, and as such are the pre-requisites of the skill level becomes the perks.

It's hard to describe without showing off my lunacy... So heres an excel document of a perk chart I've been building (cause I like lists and I get bored easily!).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B77fsKHyQrGBeUQyUnVvSUIyTFU/view?usp=sharing

You need to open it with excel to see the notes otherwise it makes no sense. And it's not complete either.

It's been edited, deleted entirely and changed completely a ton of times, and obviously some perks svck balls.

EDIT: Should also point out that one key element is that no two stats are allowed to overlap, unless Luck is impacting it. So no perk is allowed to modify a stat that a SPECIAL or a Skill already does.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:28 pm

I won't be hacking either, to make that clear.

I never played FO3, but if I remember right, lock picking was different--better--in Oblivion.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:26 pm

Ahh ok. I hadn't played Oblivion so I couldn't comment on that. Or Skyrim actually haha just not my gig. But yeah lock picking has been the same since 3 at least as far as Fallout goes

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:11 am

I think that the perk system is successful for the way it currently is.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:50 pm

Did someone say we needed a perk overhaul? http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10957/? It changes a lot of things so that there's penalties for not specializing yet still rewarding various builds.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:24 pm

The old perk system to me was horrible. This new system is awesome and takes less time to have to determine wtf you want to do with your build. I dont get the complaining. It works just fine.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:00 pm

Current system is very barebone. I will go as far, as calling it over simplified. I would have liked a more intricate system, with more depth to it. I guess it shows where Bethesda's force is, and it is not the RPG part of the game imo.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:39 pm

In my mind the current system is a good example of Beth trimming the things that clearly didn't translate well when Fallout stepped from isometric to 1st/3rd person, Fallout 3 showed how clunky the skill system worked, either creating frustrating, straight up goofy issues (looking at you, ranged weapon skills) or you had other skills that had so many empty skillpoints.

Current system is nice and smooth and in my book, proof that a RPG is not measured by how complicated its mechanics are.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:02 pm

One of the things that bugged me about the FO3 and NV skill system was everytime you leveled up you got a number of skill points that was determined by your overall INT.

So high INT builds had more skill points at their disposal. Because of this I almost always did a high INT build on playthroughs.

Now I'm not saying FO4 was the perfect solution to this problem. But at least I don't feel forced into INT to get skill points.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:04 pm

Skill system was out of date really.

the new system is much better when it come down to progression. It can be work to improve it but is a huge step on the right direction.

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:47 am

Overall... it's okay. What bums me out is all the unlock modding perks. There should be more benefit. Armorer rank 4 - armor weighs nothing when worn. Science rank 4 - build a fusion generator.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:44 pm

I wish the perks system was MORE like Skyrim. I much prefer a system where, for example, your pistol skills improve (become unlockable) because you use the pistol alot. Makes too much sense! Despised Skyrim's lack of attributes though. My orc berserker has the same Strength (or no strength really) as an elf wizard I guess?

FO4's perk system, love the poster, wish I could buy one, good idea at first, but too simple and arbitrary. Why do I have to wait until arbitrary level X to unlock perk level Y?

Borderland perk/build is pretty good, well balanced. Have to put some thought into your build, but not needlessly complicated and messy like previous versions of Fallout.

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:08 am

The perk system is much improved.

No need to go backwards.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:48 pm

The new perk system is amazing. Going back to the "here's some perks, pick one" would be a huge disappointment. This new system is alot more rewarding.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:42 pm

I think there should be some combination of both, actually.

The current perk system for character buffing/abilities. Such as your crafting unlockers, your aim-modifiers, your life ups, damage modifiers, etc.

But a classic one for the more esoteric "world changing" perks or very specific abilities (IE Shotgun surgeon, Meltdown, Bloody Mess, Mysterious Stranger, Sneering Imperialist, Tribal Wisdom, faction related perks that cause minutemen to show up randomly during a battle, Vertibirds to show up randomly during outside battles, or a Synth Suicider to pop up randomly etc). However, you only get this every 5 levels (to ballance things out) .

Oh, and traits. we definately need to see traits come back like in Fallout NV.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:53 pm

Damage modifying perks for guns should really get removed.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:18 pm

The survival overhaul may let one play like this.

» Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:56 pm

I'd honestly say save for a few perks, not even a handful really, the perk system in Fallout 4 is near perfection.

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:41 am

I don't really like the lvl8-10 ones kinda. Ill usually never go 10 into a stat because none of the perks beyond like 7-8 interest me or even affect my play style much.

Ill agree its better than the last system though, I just think theres not a huge reason/interest to go full into a special stat because those perks seem meh to me.

STR I don't care for anything past armorer, assuming Im making my armor.

Per ive gone as far as sniper but its not needed for a solid sniper build, penetrator is already build into vats crit system

End ill stop at lifegiver for that and dmg resist, or assuming I want the extra water/rad help go max 5 pts

Cha seems kinda mandatory if you want settlements and ill always end up going to local leader max, some interest in inspirational but no reason to spend 8 pts in cha with reloading to get whatever speech check. Plus lone wanderer works with dogmeat and is lower in tree.

Int ive never gone past science. Nerd rage is fun but not needed with planning, and I was worried Robotics would be buggy

Agi ive never gone past the quick hands buff and that's 5 more agi points I really don't need just to take that...but it helps with shooting so meh

Luck ive started looking at this tree more but haven't been past better crits.

Most of my builds rarely go past those numbers unless im at a certain level and need to just dump points into whatever is not interesting/leftover.

tldr: I like the new system but find the perks aren't at the right spots. I also feel there is a lack of "interesting" perks.

» Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:10 am

They can easily add new DLC perks by giving them at the end of quests or with new magazines, etc