if you didn't attempt to trigger the DB quest line then you've missed out on a lot of heroics. That's what I love about Bethesda---you always have a choice. After seeking out the DB the first time, you have the option to take the high and mighty road by flat out rejecting to join it. At that point, you'd get the opportunity to crusade and anhilate all of the Nocturnal's diabolic brood from Skyrim for good. The only downside to this is your reward at the end is pathetic compared to what you would have gained had you joined it

I think those of us voicing the gap would have been happy with a temple quest chain with something nice to show for it. I mean the DB gives you the ancient armor, and a tank/horse from hell... literally Temple of the 8 vs say a crazy rogue Talos worshiper... maybe tied to those scum svcking Blades ( didn't like them in Oblivion either saw issues back then).

Bards seem OK, but a little bland.

Try again, born in 1981. And I have been robbed twice, the second time was when my daughter was 2. Lastly I was a police officer until I was 27 and have become a security threat assessment specialist that goes around to various banks and whatnot to point out security flaws. (maybe once I finish my masters I can go work for homeland security *fingers crossed* )


So yes I actually do understand your point but regardless it does not make it evil. You misuse the word. Evil is murder without cause, or [censored], or genocide, etc. Disrupting the social contract is problematic, stressful, possibly unlawful and morally wrong. But barring specific cases such as the aforementioned ones, not evil.


In retrospect I can see why you would assume I was younger, my response had more heart and not a lot of brain to it and for that I apologize. But my overall points remains.

Don't confuse differences in moral views with age. Your condescension is not very becoming. (but not evil)

Lol, couldnt have said it better myself :thumbsup:

No offense was meant.

Too funny, I am rather conservative as you can tell by my viewpoints but I consider HLS inherently evil due to it's lack of checks and balances. The whole discussion we have had does point out the gap in the game even more. They are selling a game to everyone, not just a slice of society. No two people will look at life or the game the same way, but they left a pretty large chunk out.

"Youth is wasted on the young" - Douglas Adams ( Also phrased as "Life is wasted on the living" as well )

Wisdom and age/time are not a linear array, however the younger you are the less experience you have. Don't confuse direct comments with condescension. "Blunt" is a state of mind ( not that kind hippies!)

Dont worry, no offense was taken. Like I said I kind of see why my original post would appear to be somewhat more youthful in nature. And I agree, this game does seem to be slanted towards the darker end of the spectrum. A few more pure good guy quests would be appreciated but maybe in DLC there will be. Personally I prefer a game that focuses more on the grey zone. I want quests to push my own moral compass and the lines that I draw.

My comments obviously portray me as I am, a liberal, but I tend to be more middle ground regardless. My experiences have taught me that it is unwise to automatically assume right and wrong without being in possession of all the facts so I have become a stickler for context, I need to know the details before I can specify good or evil. That being said genocide, unjustified murder, etc as far as I am concerned are always evil. I also do believe that age is a huge factor but I have genuinely seen people younger than me that are far wiser than I, inexperienced as they may be.

Minor ethical rants aside, I think Skyrim does tend to favor the grey zones and while I dont generally mind I would like to see a bit more good guy styled quests available. The good guy alternative for the Dark Brotherhood is one of my favorite things in the world. it would be nice if there were more chances for that kind of styled quest.

What about clearing out that temple once used by the daedric worshippers that was causing the citezens of Dawnstar to become locked in eternal nightmare?
What about Hircine's Quest, where you have the opportunity to give a werewolf a second chance at life?
What about the Solitude quest where you stop the potential resurrection of one of Tamriel's most powerful necromancers?
What about the quest started at the bar in Whiterun where you try to find a bitter man's old love in attempt to turn his life around?
What about the quest where you help the bartender in Riften find the pieces he needs to propose to his lover?
What about all those bounties you can fill, cracking down on bandits who are terrorizing travelers?

There's plenty of quests in this game in which you can do true good. Sometimes you need to dig a little deeper to find them.

I can tell you what's negative...
The General Discussions section... >.<

All of them are single point or radial quest. Solitude quest had a whopping 2 steps. As opposed to the DB epic chain of 20+, the TG is off the chart and rivals the main quest.

Much more has been invested in dark epic chains than light.

I agree that wisdom and age are not linear, and that age alone does not impart wisdom. This is exactly why I found your post to be condescending.

For discussion sake, I'd contend that your statement should be adjusted to "The younger you are the less opportunity you have had for experiences."

But...

For example:
Growing old and leading a sheltered life does not give someone the opportunity for varied experiences. Spending 60 years living in the same community may leave one wise in the ways of their own community, but someone a third of their age who has perhaps travelled the world while serving in their country's military, will assuredly have a different world view. They will have been exposed to a number of different cultures with different senses of morality.

Are you one of those people? I am, and I am not military either. Possibly why people are confused why I label such "innocent" things evil. :wink_smile:

Except, to even do that you have to murder an old lady in cold blood because a kid asked you to. She comes off as a [censored] but it's not like she's eating the kids. I wish Beth would have gave much better outs for all the Daedric quests if you're trying to RP a decent person as I am this go around. Last time I was an evil bastard. With this character it's tough. There are way, way more quests that have evil outcomes than good and you're generally railroaded into them to some degree. Most of the quests with what could be considered "good" outcomes are tiny radial fetch quests. It would be nice if they gave the Divines quests as much thought as the Daedric ones or gave the Daedric one's an outcome that defied the Prince more than just killing the guy who gives you the quest.

The thing is, TES is not one genre. Arena was a stock dungeon crawler. Daggerfall was more of a sweeping epic. Redguard was action-adventure (I gather; I never got it to run). Battlespire was more locked-room horror. Morrowind - I dare not try to put a label on it. Oblivion was schlock high fantasy. Skyrim is "Swords & Sorcery" ... and it pulls the genre off brilliantly in my opinion. Certainly better than any other CRPG I can think of.

If you saw the trailer, you should have known what you were getting. If not, then you have never seen Conan the Barbarian, which is your fault, not the game's

Swords & Sorcery simply doesn't have shiny white good guys or rainbow kitten happy endings. The heroes are just tough guys trying to get by, often faced with nightmarish evil power and somehow prevailing without all of them getting killed. If you actually see a guy dressed all in white, you better believe he's super evil. The solutions to problems are never win/win; they're about making the best of bad situations. If Bethesda HAD put kitten happy endings into Skyrim, this entire homage to my favorite genre of fantasy (pulp) would be ... well ... corrupted.

So we can't really have it both ways. Sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but I did. If that's your cue to call me an "emo kid" or otherwise insult people who don't like black & white stories, knock yourself out.

tl;dr: get your Metropolis out of my Gotham.

I thank you for that information. I was actually avoiding doing anything remotely Dark Brotherhood related but if there is honestly a option to hunt them down and subject them to Dovahkiin Justice, then I am all for that. At the same time, Nocturnal's more the Thieves Guild patron, isn't she? The Brotherhood are big on Sithis.




Aye. I'm glad someone else sees the Conan the Barbarian influence. And speaking as the guy who plays the goodie goodie, I like not being able to come out of quests smelling like a rose. I play as good a character as I can, but I don't feel hampered by the lack of a "Everybody Wins" option. I have to make choices, and sometimes those choices aren't the best ones, or the most morally sound. I still take a high road, of sorts, but ultimately I have to get my hands dirty on occasion.

I think maybe the Vigilant of Stendarr are going to have a big role in a later DLC. They do absolutely NOTHING now, but I think Bethesda has some ideas for them.

I don't see the issue at all. The Daedric quests, bar one, offer options in how to proceed and while storyline-quests have a little less variation in that regard, each guild offers a different experience and moral perspective - sometimes several of the latter. Expecting the main story, the major secondary stories and all the characters within to offer the same black-and-white moral choices is somewhat narrow. Man, how can agree on what's black-and-white anyway?

As an aside, I feel that the Companions storyline is far from evil. The main undercurrent seems to be about overcoming revenge, so of course individual characters are challenged. They do, however, learn from their experinces. By the end, you may have chosen the route leaving only one Companion as a werewolf and she's the most in control of all werewolves seen in the game.

I see this game more in the lens of loss. There is such a profound sense of how far things having fallen since Martin Septim. I didn't think the plight of murderers would effect me, but seeing the state of the Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild made me very sad. The Empire, a faint rump barely holding onto the original home of Man in Tamriel. But there is hope, as Talos was a Dragonborn made Emperor, so I hope that our characters eventual fate lies. Now if we can just find a Numantia and put those Aldmer back in their place.

Have a look in her closet.

There's also the fact that the moment they see she's dead, the kids start cheering and praising the Dark Brotherhood, and acknowledge that they knew the kid you get the quest from escaped to go find someone to kill her. Creepy for sure, but that's the one time in game you'll find actual children cheering about finding a dead body, let alone the body of their 'caretaker'.

She didn't have a closet in her room.. There was a pantry, but I didn't find anything in there but a couple of buckets.

Please elaborate. I looked around and found nothing of consequence.

"Eats the children"? What's the hang-up with eating people being worse than beating and killing people?