I'd like to see both parts of Oblivion's version of the guilds and Morrowind's version in the next Elder Scrolls game. I actually like that you could become the leader of all guilds if you really wanted to. Although, there was less guild conflict in Oblivion, while in Morrowind it was made clear that the Thieves Guild weren't friends with the Fighter's Guild.

For one, to become a leader of a guild would be more difficult, but it would be possible. I think it'd be neat to have a system where, on a random event on a random amount of time after a certain quest when you achieve a certain rank, the leader of the guild dies in some tragic freak accident involving frogs and bananas. You are then among one of many candidates to succeed this leader, and you either have a test to test or you are voted upon by a council that determines your worth as a leader based on previous actions - for example getting kicked out once or twice might lessen your chances of becoming leader, while doing exceptional tasks and more than a couple side-quests that differ from the main storyline would improve the disposition of certain council members that would then lead to a more favorable chance of you getting elected. But if you lose that election, no fear... just kill the guy who beat you until you win! Or maybe a random tragedy happens that this new guy then dies and this time it involves skooma, a bunny rabbit and a misfired spell.

Everything in Morrowind was pretty damn near perfect. I dunno why they changed it in Oblivion. I've only watched the Morrowind Lets Play videos and not actually played the game my self, but from all Ive seen its a much better game.

It is. Which one, the ones by GIX?

Wait a minut, you havent even played the game, and yet you have the nerve to draw the conclusion that it's perfect and better than Oblivion? :lmao:

Popularity is of an enticing nature. It lures its victims with the promise of assimilation. To be of the victor's group is to be desired. Many souls have been lost down this path...

No, but seriously, buy Morrowind and make up your mind about it after you play it. It's a great game, but watching a video isn't how to decide how much it appeals to you.

I thought the guild questlines felt fairly realistic to the world, it was only ridiculous if you played through all of them in the same playthrough. I like having a main plot to the guild because otherwise it's just a collection of silly fetch quests with no greater meaning. In ES V, however, I would like to see the return of skill requirements for advancement, and more miscellaneous quests before the heart of the main guild questline arises (like how the issue of corruption in the Fighters Guild didn't come up for a pretty good while in Morrowind).

Could Bethesda include randomly-generated quests that never end in amount with hand-crafted quests related to a storyline in the same game? I always pictured skill requirements and reputation that comes from successfully completing quests as determining one's rank, and at a certain rank, one of the heads of a specific guild would let you in on some bigger problems, with randomly-generated quests still being an option after that point.

Random jobs would have been nice, but I think too many people get angry over the fact that you can join every guild

The game doesn't need to do everything for you. If you don't think you should be able to join every guild. don't, and pretend to yourself that you can't. Don't go around trying to enforce restrictions on other players because "this is how I think it should be..."

It comes down to nothing more than self importance. Keep it to yourself

Personally, I think they need to bring back skill and rank requirements a la Morrowind. They also ought to make it so that once you become the guildmaster, you have a responsibility to make sure that the guild continues to operate successfully. The task of being a guildmaster should be daunting enough that becoming the head of another guild would be overwhelming. However, the position should be flexible enough that it allows some time for an 'outside life', whatever that might be. As for guilds following a storyline, I don't have any strong opinions about it either way. On one hand, guilds are little more than glorified labor unions where members join, pay dues, network with others in the same trade, and get jobs based on their level of expertise. Keeping that in mind, they really don't need to be anything other than a place to get a 'job'. I will admit, however, that it makes it all the more interesting when guilds have a story of their own. If guilds do continue to have storylines, then not only should there be a main plot, but there should be several sub-plots that branch from the guild itself. There could be quests that deal with in-fighting, corruption, and competition (internal and external) -- just to name a few. Seeing a bit more in the way of internal and external politics is more of what guild questlines need, rather than the standard 'us vs. them' that made Oblivion's guild quests somewhat fun and interesting, but rather shallow.



I don't know if people really get angry over being able to join every guild. I think that people just find it absurd that you can become the head of every guild, especially when you are in two or more guilds with conflicting ideals. But you're right about one thing: no one is forcing you to join every guild, nor become the head of all of them. I believe the jack-of-all-trades 'disease' is the manifestation of multiple 'symptoms'. First, being unable to exercise self-restraint while role-playing. Second, running out of (interesting) things to do in other guilds/quests. Third, testing the mechanics and boundaries of the game. And, fourth, power-gaming. I think there are some who would like to see the game enforce certain limitations as it would then be easier to suspend disbelief, thus making the gameworld seem more real by including obstacles that we would normally encounter in the real world. Personally, this is how I think it should be. :poke:

:foodndrink:

This. You shouldn't want to become head of another guild if it was done right. I remember finishing the final guild quests, become the head of the guilds, then just saying 'seeya', never to return

This. I was rather disappointed. Just a few weekly money grabs and other boring stuff. Hopefully in TES V there'll be real stuff to do for the leader of the guild. I also don't see why the story would have to end the moment you reach the top.

I find the whole guild based game idea to be stupid. It feels to unnatural to gain ranks and unrealistic. Look how the real wrold looked during the middle ages. there were guilds but most people worked for themselfs trying to survive. The guilds only functioned as an insurance if you would lose you buisness and sometimes they gathered to drink and whatever. In the game though people actually live in the guild halls, they spend theri whole day inside the guild and they never perform any actual work.

So what I'd like to see is instead of everything belonging to a guild the quests should be spread around the games world where ordinary people may hire you or some wealthy people. Sort of side quests but with several quests involved from the same quest giver. As you gain more experience you get hired by wealthier people and get invloved with deeper and more dangerous quests.

So you didn't think a quest near Bravil for the Cheydinhal Fighters Guild is fairly realistic?

I always felt you got promoted too quickly as well, pretty much every quest you do is another promotion.. can't imagine i've ever rose through the ranks like that at work IRL.

For what it's worth, my opinion is:

1. A few more guilds/factions than in Oblivion
2. Some of the guild's should be mutually exclusive from the get-go. If you are a known member of one that is the enemy of the other you can't be in both at all.
3. Some of the guilds should become mutually exclusive at some point in your ascension of them. So you can start in two, but only finish one because of a guild conflict.
4. Some you can rise to the top rank in both.

This will give the game more replay-ability if with one character you can't possibly see the entirety of each guild/faction.

We definitely need more variety and ambiguity. The Blackwood company is a good example. That should have been a full fledged faction.

You can also tell that the Dark Brotherhood was truncated at some point in development because they spoke of other guild halls in other cities but my understanding is that there were none. I searched and searched and never found another.

Anyway, starting to ramble.

The trick for a successful guild build is to have a compelling story, but to not have the player really notice it until the end (similar to the Thieves and Fighters Guilds in MW).

You need:
1. Filler quests so that the player does not feel important.
2. Story quests so that the player does feel important.
3. Inter-faction relationships so that the player is or can be excluded from some guilds if they choose to join others.
4. Requirements so that the player cannot advance too quickly without specializing in what the guild does.
5. Rank limitations so that the player cannot be the leader of every guild, or even more than 1 or 2 (how many full time jobs do you have?)

:foodndrink:

So, you just got a job as a paralegal in New York City. You go in for your first day of work and your boss says, "nothing for you here, but I know a lawyer in Los Angeles who needs some papers filed. Better get going now, you don't want to leave him waiting."

That type of thing happens frequently, so I take it back, Oblivion's guilds were realistic. [/extreme sarcasm]

They should bring back the system of paperwork such that you don't raise in rank in the guild more than once per month in game.

That worked better in Daggerfall because time moves more quickly. I would want to do a weekly system at the maximum for a slower timeline like Morrowind or Oblivion.

Time moved at the same rate, there was just longer distance between things you wanted to do. Also, time mattered in Daggerfall.

It is not supposed to be a mirror of real life (and whether or not it is the equivalent of the Dark Ages is questionable)

I actually want to see time matter again, like in Daggerfall. At first I thought that the time limit would create a stressful experience, but in Daggerfall you get all the time you need, and there's really no need to rush, you can even take your time.

Yeah. It's not there to make you rush, it's mostly to keep your priorities in order. People who need a job done by the guild can't reasonably wait forever to get results, and the guild doesn't expel you for fumbling a quest. They just send someone else.

Yeah, I noticed that time actually moves more slowly than in Daggerfall than in the later two, because I manually travelled from Daggerfall to Daenia, yesterday.

The fact remains, though, that without fast traveling across a continent, a whole game in Morrowind and Oblivion may only last a few months, whereas a game in Daggerfall could last years of game time.

If TESV shares the same small-scale as Morrowind and Oblivion, then a month is too long to wait to go up one rank, imo.

P.S. if you fumble your very first quest, you can be expelled. Happened to me.