Thanks a lot for the perfect summaries.

Now, for those people who like ESO, I am happy for them. To each his own, discussing individual taste is pointless usually.

I, for one, wait patiently for the next true ES game by Bethesda. After having played almost all MMOs since Meridian 59 and UO, I can do without another generic themepark MMO with a tiny ES cover. I just hope that ESO will be at least sufficiently successful not to harm Bethesda's business.

Redguard, Battlespire and several other Elder Scrolls games shoot this idea out of the water. The numbered series is the only one that sticks to that. The offshoots (this is an offshoot, not main numbered series) do not adhere to such things.

Yeah, but I also don't hear people talking as much about those game series. When people think of Elder Scroll, non of those games come to mind at first, they tend to be an after thought...

You know, I agree with many sentiments of TES fans playing ESO and being a bit disappointed, but these arguments...

If you haven't played long enough to see the time of day changing, then you really aren't qualified to judge this game.

Oh crap, Morrowind isn't a TES game.

That's not the same thing. Assigning an AI package to an NPC is done at the character creation level within the Creation Kit. The Radiant AI is a different thing altogether.

You must have missed the first, what, five games in the series?

If anything, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are the exceptions to a 'true' experience, if I was to use what I perceive is your definition.

Because most people have never played them. It doesn't make them any less ES. ES is more than a sandbox, which seems to be what you are equating as the only factor to a game being ES. The one thing that ties all ES games together is lore, thus that is the main thing that determines if it is an ES game.

Shhhh... I was trying to get them to say that.

Redguard and Battlespire both came out a long time ago before the series had the fan base or recognition it has today. Most people here probably haven't even heard of those games let alone played them. For them the Elderscrolls series started with either Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. Technically you are correct of course, in fact all that has to happen for this to be a "true" Elder Scrolls game is the IP owners say it is. But we're not talking technicalities here we're talking feelings and expectations.

I don't care if it is an ES game, all I want is a good MMO. It seems like it is, in the few minutes the game runs between the constant crashes.

It just really hard to try to use an argument about something nobody knows about. To most people the core Elder scroll games are going to be the ones that are popular, and those are the games they are going to compare future iteration of the games against.

Better argument:

Who is right? *Most* gamers, who came into a series late? Or *veteran* gamers, who have been with the series the whole time?

My answer?

The company making the game. They define what is and isn't.

First off, you're mentioning games that were made anywhere from 15 to 20 years ago.. I'm certain 90% of Elder Scrolls' (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) playerbase has no idea what those games are, and 2 decades ago, you're right, radiant AI wasn't really an option. I'm sure given it was, then it would be in it.

Running windows XP with DirectX 9.0? Yeah, they know of the issue and we should see compatibility before launch.

Have to play on my wife's laptop to play without interruption. And my desktop looks SO much better ...

Same for gw2 it's not a guild wars game to many veteran players, would it of sold as insert generic game name ?.

But teso does look and resemble an ES game granted only played oblivion and skyrim, the art, animations and the feel is the same as skyrim for me.

True enough and the customer decides if he likes it or not and if lives up to his expectations or not. Bethesda are free to do what ever they want with the Elder Scrolls. I don't have to like it, you can if you want.

Morrowind was a great game for its time, and even THAT had a more alive world than ESO, but we're talking 2014 here.

Hit the nail on the head, here. Our impression of what connects us to Elder Scrolls will be different for each player.

Some, probably the vast majority of modern TES fans, it'll be nvde mods and six scripts.

This is the best reason why 'majority opinion' should be generally ignored.

Those games being different has nothing to do with radiant AI. They were designed completely differently than other ES. Even more recently there have been ES game releases that have not been "Typical ES style." Just because most fans have not played or seen them, does not make it any less true that lore is the only thing that truly binds the ES series together. Without the lore, even the mains series would just be a generic high fantasy sandbox.

Lol it's like Warcraft III was turned into an MMO, WoW. zOMG WoW ISNT LIKE WC3!!!

Imo this is what everyone sounds like. It's a great MMO and that's how I judge it. It's an MMOrpg not an RPGMMO

Not really. I had my share of falling through the world when entering a room. And I remember the time the company was jokingly called Bughesda.

Arena I probably played, but it did not really register with me.

My buddy at work asked me if it felt like an Elder Scrolls game. I said that it sure does.

"Damn game randomly crashes every 5 minutes or so. Sounds like Elder Scrolls to me!"

So true.

It is an Elder Scolls game. Just as the 3rd person action game "Redguard" was an elderscrolls game. It has the same lore and atmosphere. And yes, even if they called this "generic mmo" i would recognize it as a TES game due to the lore.

If this is no TES game then neither was Skyrim compared to Daggerfall and Morrowind. It also had less choice and freedom as those 2 games.

I agree with one of your statements: This is not TES... I fully agree with that. Everything that makes The Elder Scrolls series so good just cannot be done in an MMO properly. It takes the lore and the idea of the series, but it cannot implement the game mechanics that makes the series what it is.

I disagree that it's a good MMO. I think it's just another MMO that's so-so. At this point, I've no interest in paying Bethesda a monthly fee to play this. If I want to pay money monthly to play a game, there are several other MMOs that are better in pretty much every way possible.

Whatever Blizzard did, they did it right and so far no other MMO has been able to capture that.