If you put ￡40 on a horse in a race, and lose, you come out feeling quite sour. equally if you bet on england winning the ashes, the odds will be good, but you will still be sour when you lose.

For me, pre-ordering fallout NV has been a ￡40 gamble. To be honest I would say, considering the odds, i have won, escaping with only the new vegas gate glitch, and several minor glitches only losing me about 10hrs of time and one gatekeeper securitron.

The question i was thinking was, is this next patch another gamble? from the ps3 forums, some people have got more problems added than fixed, so is this another chance we are going to take with bethesda?

Those of us that have been lucky and 'won' are placing all our winnings on this patch, as it could ruin our game which is pretty much working at the moment, like it did to several ps3's. And the many of us that 'lost' the bet and have had dlc issues ect... have nothing left to lose so might as well gamble anyway.

Blatantly not a subliminal message in all the gambling in NV.....

But anyway, its just a though to consider as one big metaphor, what if the patch breaks the game more? for those of us that can actually play the game now? there are some shocking threads on the ps3 section, and i am half tempted to press dont download (until my luck runs out and i hit a gamebreaker ).

*sigh*

You have to consider that those that do not have any issues or minor issues don't complain much. I have not have major problems. I loaded the game to the hard drive and clear the cache when loads start to slow down. I have read that others have gone through with minor problems more than once. I heard that the auto saves may be a problem so save often and delete old saves when saving a new one. I have not given up yet, but I have not had big bugs killing the gameplay like others here have.

By the way shadey chimp, bethesda arent the game makers/developers thats obisidian, so basically to say the least obisidian [censored] fallout : new vegas....... ALL OF US WITH THE MAJOR BUGS BOUGHT A BROKEN GAME :l

Fallout NV just isnt as good as Fallout 1,2 and 3 and the majority of the population will agree with me in saying ''Bethsda should't of given Obisidian a chance and havok should of made it again like the last 3''

To sum it up DOWN WITH OBISIDIAN, BRING BACK HAVOK !!!!

Really, it seems to be a mixed bag. Some people are having very few problems, while others are having minor to major issues on the PS3. I believe a lot of it has to do with raging over small things, while others may be due to problems inherent in a user's specific console. A console's age, maintenance, hours played, and ventilation can also have detrimental effects that can allow anomalies to arise.

Yes, there are cases of confirmed bugs and glitches throughout the game on all platforms. However, there are a lot of inconsistencies between some of the glitches seen on different systems that do not affect a different platform. There are also inconsistencies between differing versions of the same console regarding these issues with the game engine. Believe it or not, no two electronic devices produce the exact same ratings in regard to power supply, efficiency, and implementation of electronic principles. There are always variances, because all electronic components (read resistors, capacitors, diodes, rectifiers, fuses, etc.) have minimum and maximum tolerances. No two PS3 systems will run at the same temperature all the time, and no two PS3 systems will run at the same power and efficiency parameters, without specific outside assistance. The same applies for a PC, or an Xbox 360.

Not all "bugs" or Glitches can be blamed solely on the game engine or software. Yes there are confirmed problems, and we all know this. Yes, those confirmed problems cause the actual console to become "confused" when the code causes a backup of ones and zeroes to bottleneck, or spill out into a jumbled mess; Forcing the system to basically lock up, reboot, or shut down into a recursive loop. Add those problems to variances in electronic design, and how a console is cared for, and you can quickly see just how eclectic the results can be. Factor in manufacturing defects in the actual electronics, or even the fact that there are literally tens of thousands of parts that can fail or malfunction on a printed circuit board inside a game console, and one can see how one small thing that slipped by on one system can cause another to fail. One example, could be that one gamer's system may be having problems actually reading the game from disc based media, because their disc drive has a laser diode that is failing. While another user may be playing from the hard drive, and the SATA controller is experiencing latency issues on their console. What happens if yet another user has a console that the GPU is overheating, has a cracked solder joint or trace that is lifted due to thermal expansion, or has on-board RAM that is going wonky?

Then we run into how the different platforms read and process the coded information. Sure it's all just electrons lining up around some copper, being pulsed by an enumerator into 1's and 0's, but different systems translate those pulses differently using proprietary code keys. So we can't just lump PS3 and Xbox 360 into the same pot when it comes to differing anomalies between systems. What may make a PS3 curl up in a corner and cry to mommy, may not even phase an Xbox 360, and might only lightly annoy a PC. (You can change the order of any platform here).

This is exactly why it took a bit of time between patch releases on the various platforms. MS wants to make certain that the patch works. That's why there is a certification process in place.

I suppose this may not make a lot of sense to some, so please excuse me if I have typed an unintelligible wall of text.

Havok is just a physics engine that is used for many games like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Halo: Reach, BioShock 2, etc. Havok doesn't develop games. Fallout 1 and 2 don't even have Havok physics.

Well whoever made Fallout 1,2,3, Bioshock 1 and 2 and Elder scrolls did a awesome job...... Obisidan shouldnt be making games their awful :L

Bethesda ARE THE PUBLISHERS. They decided when the game was to be released and knowingly let the game go on sale in a broken state. Developers have to meet publishers deadlines. And Bethesda clearly did not allow the extra time that was needed.

And remember when Bethesda released The Pitt DLC for Xbox Live and it was so buggy it had to be pulled from the marketplace. And dont get me started on the PS3 GOTY edition of Fallout 3. Bethesda's history with this franchise has been dogged with technical issues.

What worries me is that they already set a firm release date for Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for 11.11.11. I really hope Bethesda get everything done n that game by release...or delay it if they dont. But I have a bad feeling they will bring it out on that date regardless of the quality.

Indeed i believe that the age of gaming has long passed on, now the publishers only care about getting money for the game they dont care about the quality and whether we enjoy it or not.......

IF WE BUY A GAME AND IT'S BROKEN THE PUBLISHERS WONT GET PENALISED THEY KEEP THEIR MONEY FROM US, ONLY TO BRING OUT ANOTHER GAME WITH NO CARE AND LOVE :L i apologise if my ideas come across over exagurated but that's my take on the current situation.

MR house, i would like to say that i hope one day i know as much about circuits as you do hopefully my studies in physics will help. but anyway thanks for your intelligent ramblings, maybe i will get the patch after all

Which is why I will not be purchasing Skyrim until it is a verified working game. Then it may be a used purchase at that, if the game is not up to snuff. Definitely not pre-ordering or purchasing for the first two months of release after this last issue. Sure there are lots of factors here, but the point is to learn from this mistake.

People can argue all day about who is more responsible. Both the Devs and the publisher are at fault here. I mean no disrespect to either party, but Obsidian should have pushed for more time, and Bethesda should have heeded that by allowing the game to be tested thoroughly, fixed, and THEN released.

I honestly believe Fallout: New Vegas has been rushed. I noticed there were Rock-It Launcher schmetics in the game that list items to take to a workbench. But they dont work. According to the wiki site this weapon was removed from the game but they forgot to remove the schmetics.

This means they were definately intending to have that weapon in the game but it had to be pulled. And I think it was to save time. Also notice how so many houses and buildings in the game are not accessable and have the doors borded up? There was never this amount of inaccessable building in Fallout 3. We also got roads that lead directly into cliffs, loads of computer terminals that cant be used.

There is no doubt at all in my mind that this game was rushed badly to hit that October 22 deadline. And this is why there was very little bug testing. The only people I can honestly blame for this are Bethesda. I very much doubt there is any developer who could have made a perfect version of that game in the time they had.

If Elderscrolls V : Skyrim isnt good im never playing a game again, enough said to be perfectly honest......

I'm pre-ordering/purchasing Skyrim Ultimate 2-Disc Collector's Edition with Bloody Daedric Sword and Mage's Guild Crystal for $300

Is that wise it might not even work xD

Black Isle developed fallout 1 and 2 ( a few key black isle members FOUNDED obsidian), bethesda developed fallout 3 the elder scrolls games, and the folks who created bioshock had nothing to do with fallout in any way...

I agree and had very small issues myself. I always read the newest posts just to see what others found and have had issue with.
not everyone plays like everyone else so some bugs never happen. and if you pay attention and save and save often clear cache see above quote he is not joking most people found fixs shared there finds. heck my lv 10 char already at the Strip and i never even went to Prim or Nipton I went asap and already got Merc V2 Combate armor. and 15k caps

After the FO:NV burn, I wont be pre-ordering anymore games from bethesda. I would honestly suggest that no one else does either. As for the NV DLC, NOPE! Not buying that, if you want to teach them a lesson you have to hit them in the bank account. Because if you don't boycott the DLC, they wont listen. If you do just ignore this and keep buyying their products without question, you can't complain the next time they burn you.

the game as it stands righht now is total SH**..unplayable and as a compan y the game should be pulled from the shelves until all problesm have been addresssed, why keep selling an un-playbale game??? Everytimne I am in a gamestop, i make sure I voice my concern with the game and let the employees as well as any other customers know to stay clear of New Vegas....

Fallout 1 and 2 were isometric 3D RPG's on the PC made by Black Isle (i think) and did'nt use this engine (Gamebryo/Havok). Also they are, i would guess, about 10 years old or more, so God only knows what you mention them for. Bethesda made Fallout 3 and Elder scrolls (Oblivion) which use this engine and they decided to let Obsidian develop NV with it. But despite the engine being more than 4 years old (Oblivion was released on 360 in March 2006) they still could'nt get it to work properly for whatever reason (i suspect it was rushed out before completion).
Why you mention the Bioshock series is anybody's guess. They were done by Irrational games and published by 2K. The engine was a version of the Unreal engine which incorporated the Havok physics engine. But they new how to use it.

I wont be buying that untill 2013 at the earliest. When I do buy it it wil[l be used. Just about all the games that I own are used from gamestop. One of the few games I brought brand new, a collector's edition at that and this is the game I get. I got this game on my birthday. I read all the reviews they all said the same thing. "The game is great but has bugs, but the overall game play makes you look past them." I was like I could deal with a few bugs not a problem. None of them ever mention there were bugs that could completely stop you from playing the game., This has pretty much ruined the buying brand new game experience for me.

ashes...

I love reading forums like these, mostly because full-on half-literate gamer rage is hilarious. I'm not saying NV is bug free, God no. But no game Bethesda was involved with that I've played was; I can't speak for anything before Morrowind, just for the record. Mr. House is perfectly right in his technical breakdown, and I can happily *knock on wood* say that I have not had any significant bugs crop up, except for the game seeming to freeze if I change the brightness level on the main menu and then try to load a game. Solution? As the old joke goes, "Well don't do that." It may be an issue only I have, it may not be. Even if not, there have been plenty of games I've bought that worked just fine on my console, but were near-unplayable on a friend's. If some of you will kindly forget your Bethesda hate for five seconds, think about what console you're using! The 360 has been plagued by hardware issues since day one, and I'm betting quite a few of you are, like me, playing on one that's more than a year and a half old.

On top of that, I've noticed that quite a few "bugs" I've seen listed in these forums aren't really bugs once you give it some thought; honest to God if some of you would sit down and think about how you play and what you're doing, you might realize that you aren't encountering a bug, but suffering for your own choices, which is essentially the idea for the whole game. A "bug" about Victor in the Lucky 38 penthouse I've read about for example; some nimrod actually posted that if you KILL HIM, you're unable to leave. Well, no sh** Sherlock, how about you DON'T act like you're playing GTA and stop shooting everything? Seriously, if you actually sit and read and think about some things instead of foaming at the mouth and spewing various forms of "OMG PATCH NAO!!1!!1ONE!!" you'll be surprised at how many bugs aren't bugs, but people being idiots. Taking pure stupidity out of the equation, really think about how you play, and see if the things you've done explain what's happening rather than immediately assume it's a bug of some kind. Assuming, of course, it isn't blatantly obvious, like falling through the floor or something. Personally, even though I loved Morrowind, I'm glad Bethesda's games have gone the way they have, meaning not the same as Morrowind; I sure as hell don't miss quest directions like "Go north and find a cave by a tree near a rock after a fork in the road," which is EXACTLY the sort of direction you got in Morrowind. That game and its expansions were buggy, Oblivion was buggy, The Shivering Isles and Fallout 3 were buggy as the swamps of Point Lookout, but when it comes to whining about NV it seems a lot of folks forget about that. I went into this game knowing there would be bugs and not caring; this is Obsidian, founded by some of the folks from Black Isle, which gave us the pure awesome that was Fallout 2. Oh, and did I mention that Fallout 2 was just about unplayable if you didn't do things just right? Until they patched it, of course. Funny how nobody seems to remember that. Maybe because, unlike me, they didn't play Fallout 2 until it was patched.

@WastlelandWanderer : I understand and even agree to a degree with some of what you are saying, but there are plenty of real, showstopping bugs in this game and people have a right to be upset. I was there for the launch of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, and I remember well not being able to play for very long, if at all, before they released patches. You know what? It wasn't fun then and it isn't fun now. Losing companions, broken quests, and more, all add up to make the experience far less from what I expect from a Fallout game. Or maybe I should expect this from a Fallout game? I guess one would hope things would change for the better as time went on.

My friend and I both got this game the same day, eager to share experiences as we went through our respective games. We haven't been able to do that. About a week and a half into his game, he cannot play anymore because all of his savegames are corrupted. All of them. We are both new parents with full time jobs and have very limited gaming time, and it's just not acceptable to lose 30 hours of progress to a widespread showstopping bug. The DLC corruption issue should have been fixed inside of a week or 2, or someone should seriously get fired.. it's just unacceptable.

you do have a point but it still doesn't justify that this game is broken, and like you said those games came out like five to ten years ago...think about it if i was your mechanic and you been taking your car to me for the past two years and i still can't figure out how to make it work ....i think you would find someone else and fire me, right? come on they knew the game was buggy, the first five minutes i see my arms going up and down like i was jump roping, come on....explain to me how that got by them? they didn't care that's the only answer... i love the games they make i do, but that was just unacceptable oblivion and fallout three had bugs but not like this. I know that bethesda didn't make the game but they knew all the bugs and problems they had with it and they couldn't explain it to them how to avoid it? lucky for you that you can play your game without crashing but how would you feel if your game couldn't work like most of these people in here that paid 60 bucks for it, pissed i bet. I'am waiting for the patch without [censored]ing or crying but i can not stand here and let someone try and say you knew the game was buggy ...yes i knew , but i didn't know that i couldn't play the game at all, and they knew that the game was unplayable, and yet they still put it on the shelf. thats like me selling you a car that turns on but as soon as you press the gas pedal it doesn't move lol

iam with you on that i barely have the time to play, and it svcks that i paid 60 bucks for a game to collect dust....i started a new character and all and as soon as i get to the same part where it crashes it happens again. thats unacceptable, I remember when games were push back when it wasn't done and when dlc cost less and you got more, those days developers cared about their customers, now they just trying to make a quick buck just like hollywood