heres the thing your missing TES fans world wide are about 7 million.....PVP MMORPG fans are about 600K. supposedly according to all the dev posts this game is PVP centric which means that all the PVE you do in game is geared towards getting your character ready to become emperor and rule the world,

NOW as far as I am concerned

the more the game focuses on the PVP aspects? the worst the game will do financially and the better the chance of the game going F2P in less than a year and ultimately Failing fast. Proof Being no PVP centric MMORPG has ever done well historically

the more the game focuses on the PVE aspects? the better the game will do financially and the better the chance of the game staying P2p why? because the truth of the matter is PVE and CASUAL PVE players are the MAJORITY of the MMORPG market numbering about 25 million

why any company looking to make money would even consider focusing on PVP aspects in THIS day and age is quite beyond my comprehension to be honest but I CAN see why they would try to hide it behind the mantra of TES considering TES players run about 7 million worldwide if not more

It does both. You want PvE just stay out of Cyrodiil and play in the faction areas. You want PvP and an hilarious experience, go to Cyrodiil.

So you are saying tes is pvp focused? How would u draw that conclusion and where u get the numbers and fact?

Yes but PVP does not need to be an afterthought it can be a intregal part of the game . Cyrodil was nicely designed and has huge potential, the beta lag made it unplayable though

I'd wager most of the pure-PvP games that flopped was because they were glitchy and lacked any real heart. Some of the games i've played simply had a 'training' area where you got your skills up, then a vast open world filled with absolutely nothing to do.

UO was a massive hit, then they wrecked it with a non-PvP update/overhaul. It even has a new incarnation on a free server and that is very popular. EvE is still going strong too. It all depends on the canvas the game is painted on, not the type of paint.

UO wasnt a massive hit people were leaving like crazy because of the viciousness of it, they put in Trammel cause they HAD TO in order to keep the game from dying, Eve is an exception to the rule and the only one I know of

Shadowbane was amazing it had a persistant world and one of the most amazing building systems ever invented and the crafting system of shadowbane has never been repeated it was by far the best, but yet it failed because unfortunately like I said PVP is a small minority

ESO is far from being PVP centric, lol.

and I'm very curious as to where you got your numbers from. They seem about 0 right.

Just because THE king of MMORPGs (which is WoW) at the moment, was successful, does not make it a rule for all other mmorpgs. I've played many hugely successfuly mmorpgs based solely on PVP and PK that have had over 10 year lifespans. The difference is that these games focus on the gameplay (you dont really have a choice when going PVP) and not the appearance of the game, so they no longer make the headlines into mainstream markets because they arent pretty to present. Believe me though, they make their money.

ESO just chose to go in another direction thats, all, wont necessarily mean it wont do well, just like it might fail miserably.

Also most mmorpgs that claim being pvp oriented aren't.

You want pvp, go try out the older generation of mmorpgs from TQ, or even just look at EVE. People like forgetting EVE because its still in business, has always been subsricption based, does very little in the means of catering to the noobs, and will let you get murdered the moment you step out of the safe zones, and basically makes every casual mmorpg look stupid. I mean EVE has done so well they could permit themselves trying a pet project for the PS (DUST 514). But yeah ... don't compare to EVE, it's not a reference. (And why the hell not may I ask???????)

Where are you getting your numbers Poison?

600k? 7 million?

And how do you separate fan from purchaser?

Skyrim has a purchase-base of 15+ million not counting Steam sales.

Average AAA Theme Park MMO launches are around 1.5-2 million, usually attributed to MMO nomads.

WoW had at one point 15 million subs, not has just over 7 mil. We can't call them all MMO fans becuase what if they are only fans of WOW?

I think the point is, the potential customer-base for MMO versus TES always sees TES as the clear winner.

Its less PvP oriented than GW2 is.

Wut? GW2 is PvP-oriented? As in there's nothing else to do at end-game?

take a look at the number of TES fans over the years and take a look at the number of players who bought and played skyrim and who love the whole TES series and THEN take a look at EVERY PVP MMORPG ever released and NO i did not say MMOFPS that is a whole different gamerset, not one single PVP centric MMORPG has EVER had more than 500k players at its peak

Very valid point in general. EvE is always discarded from almost any debate about hardcoe mechanics, PvP-centric playstyle or payment scheme. Because it's classed as a niche game. But that's only down to the number playing. If we classed all MMOs by their population numbers, they would all be niche games when compared to the gorilla in the room. I just don't understand it either.

No, it has some [censored] pve content as well.

Aight, thanks for explaining.

(Aah now I get the number thing you did)
Thats true the pvp population is smaller then the ones that want to play pve, like not everyone are athletes either.
I would also point that dighing deeper in the lore and overall quality of the game will be healthier in the long run and keep players playing and paying.

EVE is like homosixuality in Russia - we pretend it doesn't exist.

From what I remember - and this was a long time ago, UO was already starting to shed players because it was getting pretty old, and newer sparklier MMOs were on the horizon. Trammel just did to UO what The NGE did to SWG - flat out killed it.

Maybe i'm wrong - but all I know, is that the new incarnation of UO has defaulted back to its origins and the server is packed. Not with the same numbers, but all these years later, there is still a need for some consequential PvPing.

And I don't even PvP that much. Fun times at Tarren Mill though. Fun times.

Unfortunately.

GW2 end-game svcks.

What is PvP.

To me PvP is a game where as you're learning the ropes, killing mobs, you have to be constantly on the lookout for other players (especially high lvl ones) that might just randomly pass by and kill you. It puts in a mighty good reason to find a legion/guild as they end up protecting you until in turn you can protect newcomers, and creates REAL rivalries with other guilds as your constantly kicking their pk members' asses or just out for retribution. It also creates friendships between people the same lvl when starting out as everyones in the same boat of trying to avoid those crazy pkers running around maps.

It's a totally different type of game. And yes some people do find that fun.

MMORPGs that have instances of pvp in end game are not pvp games....

I am not comparing to the gorilla as you put it, the numbers dont lie worldwide mmorpg numbers are around 25 million players spread out amongst the thousands of mmorpg's currently on the market, whereas the true pvpers who want nothing but a true pvp environment are slim to none, I would state what game I am thinking of when I mention the PVP of this game but every time I say that magical name my post gets deleted, but lets just say that according to the posts and videos devs have posted for the past two years of this game the pvp consists of this:

3 realms that you get to play PVE in and level up your character and get ready to pvp in another central realm, the winning realm of the 3 gets relics they capture and take back to their realm and these relics give benefits to every player of that realm, this is how TESO has been described over and over again for the past what 3 years? if you do some research into this particular system you will see this system has been done before and at its PEAK this game only had about 150k players total....

THIS is why I say that the more they focus on PVE and the less they focus on PVP the better I think this MMORPG will be in the long run

Fail logic is...well....fail.

Anyway - this has been thread has been /answered already. ESO is a hybrid of both types of gameplay, without any hardcoe elements that make PvP actually consequential aside to taking land etc. And you know what, that's totally cool in my book. It doesn't alienate anyone. If content is released at a fairly proportional rate, then it will continue to not alienate people.

I hope you are right but again I feel the majority of the negativity I am seeing about this game is the fact the majority of people are going into TESO beta EXPECTING a TES game and THIS is where the negativity comes from

I see that too - but that's a natural reaction because a lot of people simply don't educate themselves about the game to begin with. They expect TES VI, or Skyrim online. TESO was never meant to be either of these things, so it's like someone being negative about my house because it doesn't look like a boat.

This, I'm not an PvP player always played on PvE server, tried batlegrounds in WOW an bit but found random dungeons better.

Tried PvP in ESO, it was hilarious fun, AD was all out zerg we did well on Saturday, on Sunday Daggerfall began hitting multiple fortresses at once making us respawn far away and was able to pretty much roll us up.

So you probably has to be in the next beta to experience wild mindless zerg with any chance of success.

But yes it will be plenty of other stuff to do too. I think they had to do PvP ready and balanced early as its one unit who has to work, Dungeons and raids are independent and can be added one and one. If first raid is to easy the next will be harder and the other way around.

Again you're spouting out numbers without backing them up. But I agree with you, it's totally logical than in a successful SINGLE PLAYER franchise, there have been more players than the player base of ONE multiplayer game at it's peak.

seriously....

But they chose to make an MMORPG, not a single player RPG. You cannot have a succesful MMORPG (with subscriptions) by making it like the single player. Who in their right mind would pay 15$ a month to play a single player game?