Could. The Shrine to http://mpg.planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/images/stritsch/shrinetonerevar.jpg feature a more oval face, with no crown though.

Yes, could very much be Vivec.

Probably should have explained the Nerevar comment. I was just trying to show that not every image that was legless/floating was automaticaly Sil.

I hear you, looking at the art again it probably is Vivec.

But it's all part of the process of learning. :dance:

It's actually one of the Temple Saints. Compare it to the ones in http://www.imperial-library.info/gallery/mw_TAoM_p23.jpg. If I'm not mistaken that is Nerevar.

Sotha Sil is shown along with the other Tribunes on some of the Murals in Vivec, I don't have any screens ready though at the moment.

That is Nerevar in his bonewalker aspect. Note the bolts sticking out of his arm and the skeletal limbs. http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/consolation_prayer.shtml.

Seht is dead.

But I still wouldn't be surprised if Eno Romari were an avatar of Seht... his appearance does coincide with the presumptive time of Seht's murder pretty well. And he worries Almalexia...

Eno Romari was said to have been recruiting members for his cult for weeks if not months (if not years) and Seht had only very recently died.

Not to keep a lukewarm topic going but I find it interesting as someone brought up in another topic that the last letter Sil wrote was to Dvith Fyr. Perhaps it contained more then a letter. Perhaps it contained Sil himself....

And perhaps the parrot he sent to Dram Bero for Christmas was really Sothas aunts underpants.
There is no evidence for such a thing. You can believe it if you want to, but it won't make official lore.

Look Im just trying to promote conversation and discourse. Take things and shake them up and see what happens. Im not trying to make anything "Official Lore". This is the Elder Scrolls Lore Forum not OFFICIAL Lore. Thats in the game (and is an extremely misleading lable). Name one piece of Official Lore that has survived intact from Arena to Oblivion. Its a constantly evolving thing that has taken a life of its own because so many people kneed and poke at it for years at a time.

I mean was Jaufree a man with a secret or just an incompetant in over his head? Was Jagar Tharn a Mythic Dawn Agent following a plan or a Renegade Battlemage playing his own game? Was Uncle Sweetums really trying to mantle Sanguine or just some crazy cat with a funny hat and too much Moon Sugar?

This is what this place is for, and I dont see why you think, your comments are gonna deter me from bring things like this up.....No, no your right. Lets discuss the tattoo on Vivecs left toe again. Does it really signify the family allegiance of Meridia's Favourite scamp's last Summoner?

What if Sotha Sil were not dead, but had merely done what the Daedric Princes do and returned to his sphere? That could apply to Almalexia also. Can a god actually die?

Edit: Did Lorkhan actually die, cos that would throw my theory out the window?

Sotha Sil was a Psijic, i really dont think they have too strong a hold on life anyway. Also, if you read 2920 series, Sil has a bit of a reclusive edge (ill say a tiring of life) way back in the First Era.

These are some interesting quotes I looked up in the CS:


This (altough said by vivec) is completely in line with the view we have from Seht, one of the other mortal gods. He's not man anymore, he's more like a machine.





These quotes explain to me a much about how we must view the way a god "dies", it doesn't actually happen in our old fashioned sence of dieing. The question that remains now is IS the Tribunal still able to use these godly powers or have they lost their godhood completely or if they haven't lost it completely how much of their godhood remains? and should we consider a dragon break in wich " Vehk the god who has always been has not been"

These are some interesting quotes I looked up in the CS,

I apologize, I admit I overreacted. But I have to add, that most lore "thought up" are based on evidence found in-game, mostly in books, and at some extend, "obscure texts" from TES. If you want your poking to be taken seriously, there has to be some basis and explanation for it. If one just throws out theories, nobody's going to listen (as I myself has experienced quite a few times :dance:).
There is no evidence or reason for why Sotha would "send" himself in a letter anywhere, and honestly, it rings more of fan fiction than lore fiction.


I do not think the Tribunal have spheres like the Daedra do, that is, actual spheres in Oblivion, so I don't think they could return to any such thing. But I'm not sure.
On a side note, one could twist the word around a little and say that, in a way, "Clockwork City" was Sotha's sphere, since he was the creator and governor of everything there. But it's still not a real "Daedric" sphere, were the Prince is the sphere.


Vivec states "We have lost our godly powers" after the destruction/removal of the heart in Morrowind. It seems to be so that without the connection to the heart, their powers will slowly fade away. Does that mean that both Sotha and Almalexia will die in their "god-sleep"? If they had enough powers left to enter it when they were killed on Nirn, that is.
Another thing: When Almalexia and Sotha finally die, do they enter the Dreamsleeve again? It seems to me like the most probable thing to happen. Then will have The Sotha Silerine and Almalexirine in a couple of years, wouldn't we?

Edited for cleaning and spelling.

These are exactly the questioins i ask myself, some things i would like to know are these. Since they are obviously true gods (IF we believe that there was a dragon break at red mountain) If he has always been (the god that is) can he disappear just like that when the heart ceases to exist (just speculating on this we do NOT know if it indeed ceased to exist at the end of the events at Red Mt. ) or does that require a new dragon break and did one happen? all interesting questions ofcourse but will they ever be answered?

Did he disapear after the Nerevarine struck the heart? If so how was he at the trial in the first place?

Vehk has CHIM. Seht did not.

He didn't die or anything when the Heart's enchantments were broken, he simply stopped being a god. That said, he remained an extremely powerful mortal. I just wouldn't bother saying that they "became" mortals again. They remained gods forever despite what happened.

sorry this is what keeps confusing me, they are and are not gods at the same time. sounds a bit like the gray maybe, the compromise between IS and IS NOT. stil i don't understand the concept. seems a bit like doublethink to me

Although this topic has already been covered, the Chimer lived long before 2000 years ago(I think) If he was truely a 'Chimer/Dunmer' then he has to be indeed 4000 years old.

In TES gods aren't all powerful all knowing formless spirits that "live" above. Everyone on Nirn has the potential to become a god, they just have to realize that potential. Vivec, not his real name, was born to a poor Netchiman and his wife, somehow got involved with Nerevar and became one of his generals/advisors. All this time Vivec had the potential to be a god, infact he had this potential before he was born. Now the war of the first council starts and the Dwemer go where they went, not important to this discussion, and the six of them see the heart of the world for the first time. Nerevar wants them to leave the heart alone but the Tribunal think that would be a huge waste so they plot to murder Nerevar.

Eventually they use the heart. Now at this moment that potential for Vivec, and the other two, is finally realized. Vivec the mortal no longer "exists" because he is now a god. In Vivec's poetic mind the two were never the same save for that "one red moment" when the heart was used. When the heart was used the Dragon broke and the three of them probably stomped around in the Aurbris in god form, but they aparently approached this differently than others who have broken the dragon because they were not stripped of their power like Mannimarco, but they needed the enchantments on the tools to recharge their powers. These statements are important when discussing Vivec's assertion that after using the heart he had always been a god. Since he had met that potential the idea of him being a god has now always been there, and since the three of them played in the untime they knew of the worlds beginnings. But it's not like there were suddenly three gods in Redmountain when Boethia was tricking the followers of Trinimac. The three had still only been gods from the time they used the heart forward.

When the enchantments on the heart were removed, not the heart itself, the Tribunal were no longer able to recharge their powers. Eventually they would have just become really weak gods, and wouldn't have been able to "wake up" like Villfarelse already mentioned.