I'm a poli sci major, don't patronize me. I learned what the [censored] a republic was when I was 11. Please get over yourself. I know what government my country is. You said that Ancient Rome was a democracy, I corrected you, if it was a true democracy like Greece I doubt a power like Caesar could have come forward.

The genius even keeps paperwork though! I love this guy :wub: He's not only brutal, but well organized as well! It reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition, but less scary.

If I remember correctly that was the Van Buren take on the Legion. Taking slaves, selling them and adding those that weren't sold to their army/slave workers.
Seemingly a large raider group of slavers, though no one knew what went on in their distant lands.


Not really. You are calling in the NCR to either deflect his criticism or because it seems a lot of people seem to think those who don't like the Legion must be in love with the NCR. The way you worded it makes the latter pretty clear.

Your point of them being bad apples might stand, though the common disdain or inferiority most legionaries on the front line seem to hold to women and Siri's remark of never having seen a free woman in the three years she has been in the legion don't really hold that notion strong.
At best women serve are suppressed into a very traditionalist task of doing the household and producing offspring (an uncommon practice in the post-war Fallout Universe) if they aren't common slaves.

Whoa, easy. I wasn't trying to be patronizing, maybe a little obnoxious, (okay REALLY obnoxious) but I'm not trying to be an ass. You're right, I used the generlized term for a government where the power is primarily placed in the hands of the people, and just wanted to make sure you understood thatI was calling Ancient Rome, Republic, not a Democracy.

How the hell am I supposed to know what your degree is? I was just trying to clarify that I meant the popularized usage of the word Democracy and not the Poli-Sci term.

Edit: not that it matters becuase the rest oof the thread has devolved into people calling each other morons and idiots with the whole NCR versus Legion thing. *sigh* Damn it. really, all I wanted to do is compare the Legion with Ancient Rome. WTF?

I am a 20 year old American who has a high school diploma, I don't know what part of the country you're from but where I live the educators make sure you know simple Roman history and basic vocabulary. Ok, done being a [censored] now. Thanks

Well, so you know, 23 year old American, with a Bachelor's degree in Psychology, with a minor in Philosophy. (that explains my love for argueing) As I've already stated I get the difference between a Democracy and a Republic. I told you, I was using the popular term. The same term that's used in newscasts or debates when they're talking about "bringing democracy to third world countries."

lol NEWS!

Yeah I know. If there's a place to find the wrong usage for words... (don't even get me started on how many times I've heard "negative reinforcement" used as though there was something wrong with it.

Back on topic: Another thing, is that the Roman Empire was very fond of Architecture. I know we don't see anything of the Legion's actual empire, but they've been in the Mojave for almost a decade, shouldn't they have built something by then?

Caesar only picked and chose aspects of the Roman Empire that he wanted to incorporate into his new Legion. Which means that many of the postive qualities of the Roman Empire were tossed aside (such as technological advancement, medicine, and architecture) in favor of the militaristic aspects. Which included conquest and aggressive expansion of his state.

In other words, the Legion isn't supposed to be a carbon copy of Rome, and it certainly isn't.

Feel free to do the same with a tooth-pick.

I'm a svcker for the Romans. I love reading about the Roman Republic and the Empire, about figures like Caesar, Augustus and Constantine. They were my favourite subject in school and out of it, so when I saw Caesar Legion I was like, "Oh hell yeah!"

My issue was that the developers picked out to much of the negative stereotypes of the Romans which in turn made the Legion the apparent bad guys to many people. The crucifixions, the slavery, the apparent cruel dictatorship that portrays Caesar akin to Nero than the actual Julius Caesar. You get highlights of Caesars admiration of Romans and upholding their ideals, which are portrayed AWAY from the Mojave. What we get is this apparent cruel overlord, "run or you'll be enslaved or stuck up on a cross." We only get glimpses in the Mojave of Caesar's Nova Roma.

I'd love for a Fallout to explore Legion territory so we can get a look at what life in their lands is like. As it's mentioned, slaves aren't herded around, they aren't forced to keep their collars on, raiders are hardly a issue and if how the Legion deals with Crime in the Mojave, then Flagstaff must be a paradise. You'd get a much better picture of Caesar's new Rome in the Arizona than you will in the Mojave.

yeah, but Eddie went and tossed out some of the best qualities of Rome. If He'd used some of those more advanced technologies, or made an affort to build and improve, not only would he have been able to stomp the NCR up one side of the Mojave and down the other, but he'd probably win more conflicts through diplomacy.

If a rival comes along conquoring everything and offering slavery and destitution, they most people are going to go down fighting. However, if they come along, offering Aqueducts and medical services, then people might be more inclined to join of their own free will.

And for the record: SPQR my ass.

This...Its an acurate depiction of what it is, not what its ment to be... :spotted owl:

And Rome was not a democracy, it was a republic.Then the ceasers became the head of state, and as thier body of law got smaller, the emporers began doing more radical things,plus thier country was in the hands of money changers, and the people were to distracted and dumbed down to care.Sounds familiar.

And niether of the two imperialist factions in the game are Identical to thier old world counterparts,NCR copys modern US, while ceaser only "cut and paste" certian parts of Roman culture into the legion(unless they have another body of law back east, too bad we'll never know,or at least not untill a future game....)

It is'nt the real roman way. Caesar took what he liked and ignored the rest of it. Romans had female gladiators. Not all females were slaves. They did have some democracy. They were very nasty b**tards but not like CL.
But he is a comepletely pchychotic, sociopathic, obscenely and offensively sixist b**tard. CL are extremely sick, pchychopathic, sociopathic, sixist b**tards who all need to die as soon as possible and at every single oppertunity.

Funny, you've only seen their army and this is what you call them? You do realize that in the Legion's land not all woman and people are treated as slaves? Most live pretty normaly. Hell, it's even safer in the Legion's lands then it is in NCR's.

Still, find it funny how most around here bash the Legion for being "sick" and "cruel", which they no doubt are, but all we've seen is their army. They're using scare tactics against the NCR and the rest of the Mojave and it's working. They've managed to lower NCR's moral just by being there, let alone by completely destroying and massacering towns. Point is they're trying to win and they're gonna do all they can to win, even if it means being cruel and sick minded bastards, they're gonna do it. Anything and everything to win.

Anyways lets not make it Legion vs. NCR like it's already turned into....again.

Except there's no part in the game that says women are treated better in other parts of Caesar's Lands.

still find it funny how most people who are pro-legion make stuff up, while providing no evidence to back it up.

That's a good point. Some of the most altruistic societies in the world resort to fairly depraved activites during wars. All we've seen of the Legion is what their soldiers do, however, these activities seem not only condoned by Caesar, but encouraged. Cruelty to soldiers was a potent scare tactic throughout both the Roman Empire and the Dark Ages, but even as early as the American Revolution quarter to enemy combatants was not only typical, but expected. So called "Rules of War" were commonly broken, but those who were caught were often punished.

Also: as a similarity to Rome, do you think Cottonwood Cove, particularly the road into, is a reference to the crucifixion of of the Gladitorial rebels on the road from Rome to Capua?

The lands are civilised in Legion territory. And all you see in New Vegas is war camps. You have to assume what Arizona is like because Obsidian didn't tell us.

Assuming things only makes them wrong. Until Obsidian has said one way or the other saying anything about the state of Arizona is automatically non-canon and false.

You cannot make up canon it has to be told, and all in game evidence points against the theory that women are free in other parts of Caesar's lands.

You think i'm pro Legion, cute. I actually really like House for what he's doing and would have to say he'd be the best faction for vegas as a whole. That said, I still like the Legion.

Now my point wasn't females aren't slaves in their lands, some probably are, but what I'm saying is that they have towns and the such in their lands. People who aren't in the legion, but who live on their lands and the such. Meaning there has to be some ladies for that said town to live and whom are probably NOT slaves.

My second point is that to many people around here bash the Legion because they think they're some cruel minded sick sons of [censored]es yet all they've seen is their military. They scare the [censored] out of evevryone because they act like they're total badasses and just don't give a [censored]. They make it seem like they'll butcher just about anyone that will come into their path and I don't know about you but i wouldn't [censored] with anyone like that. Also, this lowers morale for NCR because now some troops probably have the mind set that " Oh [censored], Legion. We're done". No one knows what happens in their lands, how they act, what they do. We can only assume.

Like I said, I don,t want to get into another ridiculous argument, because they're just filled with some ignorant people who can't see the pros and cons of every faction. That said, I'm done with this.

I never said you specifically were pro-legion I made a general statement to anyone who happened to be pro-legion.

Funny how arrogance can make someone think another was talking about them specifically when they weren't.

Also nowhere is it stated that Caesar lets non Legion towns exist on his lands. As far as we know all towns within Legion territory are Legion controlled and as such would follow Legion practices

I agree. He should have driven his state towards technological advancements and cultural enhancements and emulated Rome in this respect.



"SPQR" or "Senatus Populusque Romanus" referred to the Senate and People of Rome. In the early days of the Roman republic, the phrase was accurate. By the time of the Roman Empire though, the senate still existed, but only in a ceremonial function.

Rome gained quite a few allies becuase many people believed that they would live a better life if they joined the Roman Empire. The Legion doesn't offer a better quality of life. And I'm refering to places like New Vegas where people can, not only do what they want, but have medical and technological vendors at their disposal.



I was reffering to the Legion. No Senate, no power for the people, and, unless you complete for Legion, no Rome.

So you think that anybody pro-Legion is, what? A blind moron who makes up whatever they like to support them?

And don't tell me what I can and cannot assume. They have a huge chunk of land east of the Mojave. It's only logical that the population there isn't composed of just slaves.

And as I say again, all we see is war camps in New Vegas. Look up the conditions of war camps and the tactics of the Ancient Roman military and you'll see that is actually not too different.

Yes, but we have already establish Caesar just cherry picks parts of roman culture he likes, assuming that just because the original Romans did it Caesar does it to is a logical fallacy.

Also I can tell you what to assume when we are talking about CANON. Canon is defined, and anything not explicitly defined is non-canon. Since he treatment of people in the Legion's lands as a whole is not defined anything you say about it is automatically non-canon and wrong.

If you are not going to adhere to the standard of what is canon or not all your arguments are automatically unjustifiable and wrong.