NCR is new to the area. Mr.House has been there for possibly a long time. If NCR was to just cut the power to Vegas alot of people would be upset with NCR. Also NCR does not have their full power in the Mojave area. They are cut off for reasons unknown from the rest of NCR in the west. NCR has spent years (possibly) fighing the BoS. Now Caesar's Legion is moving into the area. They have attacked the Dam. NCR has to keep the bulk of it's troops at the dam. Again I am guessing but with a slaver army just across the colorado river you can't just leave a skeleton crew at the dam.

Hearing about the BC Verta doesn't change my opinion about the NCR. I'm still a little worried about them and Ceasars Legion sounds better in theory with Caesar unting the tribals but they have problems too espcially with Women.

Probably the only true good path is you take out all 3 groups

I think a lot of people over look the fact that Caesar was teaching tribals the basics of survival before the legion started, and tribals are going to solve problems with war and violence, enslaving and war may not be the most ideal of paths towards rebuilding civilization, but from what I've seen the Legionnaires have a purpose and they'll die to protect the legion.

Josh said in the best buy interview that the legion is extremely disciplined and I can understand why some people would favor a power that knows what they are doing, and doing it well, the legion provides safety from the wastes and the NCR can barely protect the land it does have.

I'll be siding with Caesar's legion because their end game goal is to unite the wasteland under one flag, as it were, and if some people don't want to join the legion (causing trouble later or a war later, they die) Caesar's plan to rebuild is swift and exact, while the NCR stands around doing nothing but taxing the people and making shady deals.

I think a lot of politics boil down to "those in power want to stay in power" but what that person would do with power after the end goal is met would be something I'm interested in. (Much like Ashur from The Pitt, I thought that his end game goal of rebuilding the city was a noble goal, although I did not agree with the outlook his slavers had, he did have control over them. Also, by allowing a slave to fight their way to freedom, and not double cross them when they did was a very noble thing to do, and if you talked to a few of the slavers, they were former slaves, and their perspectives changed after becoming "free") I think Caesar will have little problem doing what is best for "Rome" after his enemies are taken care of.

Rome was great once, and it shall be again! Hail Caesar!

yeah, the tyranny of the few over the many
btw, ashur's "haven" was a place filled with mutilated corpses. what a noble man...
have fun crucifying people

Not all tribals are hostile warmongers. Tribes in Fallout Two were peaceful tribes that kept to themselves. Caeser's Legion is a slaving group. Chances are it started out as a group of slavers that got their slaves by taking over peaceful tribals and not as a tribe that started taking over other tribes.




NCR only has trouble controlling it's own lands in the Mojave area because they are cut off from the west. People would join the Legion if they could be in the army and not as the slaves. Still I am sure alot of people would still not want to be apart of a slaving army.

No I'm fairly sure they said that Caesar went out to teach the tribes, and they united under him, and after that they went off on their crusade. Slaving just became a means to and end.

I am sure as a slaving group caesar "united" them by enslaving them. Seeing as they used spears and rocks and his people had guns and nukes. He could be alot like Ashur. At some point caesar wanted more then just being the kingpin in a slaving group. He took over and enclaved many tribes and yes tought them how to use guns. Point is I don't think caeser started out as a tribal leader that united the tribes. Why take the chance by enslave a town of people armed with guns and robots when you can enslave a group of tribals armed with rocks? Caeser gains power and wealth and attracts Mercs. Over time built an army my guess is he uses the tribals as cheap cannon fodder.

Aways that's just by take.

no no. If you watch that best-buy video they tell you all about the Legion, how Caesar came to be leading it etc. Very spoilerific.

A link would be nice. There are so many videos. Edit: I think I found it watching it now

I know the legion started in Arizona. "Uniting" 74 or so tribes. They are a slaving organization.

agreed, i think it's less of a "woah, I have a chance to get real power here" and more of a "woah, I have a chance to do something great here."

Here's the Link http://www.liveatbestbuy.com/fallout be warned there's some audio disturbance which is VERY painful to the ears, near the end, two or three times.

Well my take from it is. The leader was a member of the He went east to the grand canyon to teach. He got involved with a tribe and helped them win a war with another tribe. The tribals worshipped him. At some point he went all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now and started conquering and enslaving other tribes.

Or was something like that Star Trek episode with the Nazis. A man goes to a planet to study a people. The people are in choas. So he teaches them about the Nazis and how they rebuild Germany during the 1930's. "Hitler shaped a battered Germany into economic superpower." The mans goal was not to make them evil Nazis but just to use them as an example of how they were able to rebuild so fast. Others soon removed the man and took over and became evil Nazis.

I am still siding with the Colonal Kurz theory.

In the interview "peace through war, he conquers and then kills all the desenters and then has peace." "All the women are slaves.They are a slaving organization."

Never watched star trek so I'm probably not getting all I could from your explanation, but Caesar went there to help people, so I can hardly think that now all he wants are slaves and war. I mean his coins even say "Peace Through War" so in my book his means are horrible, but his ends are good. I can't say the same for his generals or army, but Caesar himself has most likely launched this campaign for the betterment of society as a whole.

Small tribes fighting amongst themselves over food/water/other post apocalyptic supplies is no way to live either.
The NCR just feels too much like a Military rule to me, where the top gun would most likely do what he has to to preserve the NCR, as from what I've seen the NCR doesn't protect the people very well.

Edit: in reflection, I love all the shades of gray.

I love the shades of grey as well.

My first theory makes sense (at least to me lol). "He went east to the grand canyon to teach. He got involved with a tribe and helped them win a war with another tribe. The tribals worshipped him. At some point he went all Colonel Kurtz and started conquering and enslaving other tribes."

He went there as one of the Mistakes like slavery and greed. He helps a tribe with a war. The tribe worships him like a god. He starts to believe he is a god. Would explain why he takes up enslaving people mostly women. We don't know what kind of man caesar was before he left for the Canyon he could have already had mental problems.

Guess we just have to wait and find out. We some what went off topic.

But it's already been said that both A.) Caesar has reasons for the things he's done. and B.) That CL and the NCR are both not goody two shoes nor bad to the bone.

So if he has reasons for these horrible acts, I would assume it's not because "he's a nut case".

I am not saying he's totally nuts just delusional like Ashur. Hitler had "good" reasons for what he did but pretty much anyone would say he was delusional. As well as Ashur. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I am not saying Caesar's Legion are nothing but Evil people. Every faction like you said will have bad and good things about them. Caesar gives the wasteland Law and Order which is good. He does it by taking over and killing anyone that does not agree with him and enslaves women. Which many would agree is bad. I don't think caesar is doing all this because he want to help the wasteland. I think he's doing it because he's come to see himself as a god.

we shall see sir, we shall see.

I think you are mixing up Vault City and the NCR. Vault City is the one that bans alcohol entirely. NCR is just against public drunkenness in their cities. In fact there is a bar right outside their congress building that sells tons of alcohol (it is the best place to get beer in the game too!).

I think that by growing to big, what might have been at first intended to help others may have turned into an army which has some control over the lower ranks but not enough to keep them from stealing from and harassing the local populace. Looking at it right now, I side more with the NCR than Caesar's Legion. The legion seems more like a group of slavers than something that would try to help anyone but themselves. I personally will take the lesser of the two evils.

Does anyone recall the Enclave convos from FO2 where you would find a lost Enclave base and call and mock another Enclave base? It was freaking hilarious until they zoomed in on your signal and sent a Vertibird squad in full APA. But THEN it got even funnier because they take you aside... and ASK you if you've seen the [censored] who's been prank calling them!!!

I hope we get the same sort of humor with the NCR and Caesar's Legion. FO3's Enclave baddies really had no humor beyond Eden's over the top broadcasts. (Baseball! That's what will save this country!)

The most agreed upon answer is that the NCR has good ideals, but they're limited by their bureaucracy and corruption. As far as Mr. House goes, he simply wants to keep the status quo. He doesn't really care one way or the other as long as he stays in control of the strip. What hasn't really be mentioned is how Caesar's Legion will be gray.

I think Caesar's Legion will bring order to the wasteland. You could liken the Legion to a criminal organization. With a large, powerful group such as Caesar's Legion, the smaller gangs are kept in line. Order and stability exist because only one gang is running the show, and no one dares challenge them. If, however, the Legion is dismantled all these smaller factions will fight each other to fill that power vacuum. The resulting conflicts would turn otherwise peaceful settlements into war zones.

I also think people put too much on the slavery issue. We aren't even sure how slavery works within the Legion. They may have a system which only allows slaves to be kept for a few years before they must be freed. They might have a system where the slaves can fight for their freedom (similar to gladiators). Some people in the wasteland may even prefer slavery. If the choice is between getting food, clothing, and shelter as a slave, or barely scratching an existence as a wastelander, then that might drive them to welcome slavery.

In my first playthrough, I will side with the Legion. If you're not strong enough to stay free, you either get the shackles or the cross. This is the wasteland. It isn't Tranquility Lane.

I assume it works the same way the Romans did it. Conquer an area, then allow the losers to join your side. That would expand your forces and inspire (hopefully) genuine loyalty among the soldiers. Standard routine for building an empire, really. It's not so much slavery as drafting on a massice scale, but it would explain how Caesar's Legion has become such a threat.

So, because a democratic republic may not be heaven on earth, a military dictatorship under a God-Emperor who thinks he's a Roman is preferable? You're talking about NCR troops "mistreating" people - Ceasar's Legion literally crucifies people.

By your logic, because the United States interned Japanese-Americans during the Second World War, we all should've taken up arms for Hirohito and his murderous legions. It's ridiculous.



And by your logic, it would've been perfectly noble to overthrow the United States government circa 1926.



No it isn't - that couldn't be more incorrect. Many laws in the United States are decided by state governments, hence the law is not the same throughout that republic. The only defining factor of a republic is that it does not have a hereditary monarch (i.e. not a kingdom). It can be democratic, dictatorial, et cetera. The U.S.S.R., France, U.S.A., Germany, Congo...all are or were republics, of all different stripes.



We have laws against public intoxication where I live, too. You can't drink out in the streets, or be drunk in them, either. This is a pretty common law.



I truly can't comprehend you - you don't like the idea of "military rule" by the NCR, when they are in fact a stable and functioning representitive democracy, yet you praise the dictatorial Legion war-machine?

It's a very common phenomenon. There are many who don't like the "military rule" of the United States, but who at the same time praise dictatorial states where there is extreme intolerance, and little freedom. I think it has to do with egalitarianism and moral relativism; they don't concern themselves with whether something is good or evil, but whether it is equal or unequal. So, they hate the United States, or the NCR, for being militarily and morally superior.

I can guarantee that any system of government will fail given enough time, so its all good.

Wow, your ability to see the future is amazing. You should really run away and join the circus or something with a talent like that.