One of the things I am most curious to discover in the beginning of "Fallout: New Vegas", is the nature of the New California Republic. According to the Fallout Wiki, the NCR is dedicated to "restoring order and progress to the wasteland, as well as old world values such as democracy, liberty, and the rule of law." This sounds like a noble cause worth supporting. However, Josh Sawyer recently said that the NCR "taxes all 'legitimate' trade and abuses the local populace." This leaves me wondering if the abuse of the local populace is due to corruption in the lower ranks of the NCR, and poor oversight of the lower ranks due to a lack of manpower, or if it's something which the top leadership of the NCR knows about, and approves of. Further, I've heard people on this forum refer to the NCR as a stagnating bureaucracy. Is this based on facts, or is it something people just assume? I know they are supposed to have expanded too quickly, that they are spread too thin, and that they have trouble maintaining order, though I haven't heard anything about stagnating bureaucracy.

What type of individuals do you believe the leadership of the NCR is comprised of? Do you expect there to be some 'ideological crossover' with the Enclave, in that there may be many elitist authoritarian fascists in both factions? Do you expect the leadership of the NCR to be more like typical pragmatic, wishy-washy, politically correct bureaucrats that stand for nothing and only care about their own 'political capital'? Do you expect there to be any truly principled republican statesmen?

Do you expect many of the lower 'rank and file' soldiers of the NCR to be genuinely good American patriots, inspired by the U.S. Marines, the Texas Rangers, etc.? Or, do you expect most of them to be thugs, mercenaries, and so forth?

It's been made pretty clear that the NCR aren't the knights in shining armor. Do you believe we can seek to reform the faction from within?

I've raised many issues regarding the NCR, so don't feel like you need to address them all. Please post if you have any thoughts, or answers, to any of them (without heading into spoiler territory).

the devs have said that the NCR have grown too big, they aren't really in control of their own forces anymore. Also another (possible spoiler) post said that they abuse the local population and ruthlessly tax business. Not sure whether they conscript locals, or work with signups (like the BOS in FO3 did). But they are a mess, basically. Depending on your point-of-view, hardly the "good guys"

I hope that if you join the NCR in game that you will be able to restore the power of the NCR without all the coruption and bad leadership

Yeh, i would think something like this, and like the OP said, they cant control lower ranks so some bad stuff may happen to the wastelanders.

I have a feeling if you side with them you can side with the people and take out the "man" or vice versa.

Would be kind of dumb if you couldn't.

My hate for them is well founded... May they rot in hell with pineapples up their collective butts.

I will be writing this post based on what I know about the NCR on their appearance on Fallout 2 and the design documents of the unreleased Fallout Van Buren.

Based on the NCR's actions in Fallout 2, they are the (mostly) good counterpart to the Enclave. Although things such as corruption, red tape, bribery and even political assassinations are part of the NCR government, they are the best hope of resorting civilization the wasteland. The republic has been spending years rebuilding pre-war infrastructure such as railways and road, promoting caravans and trade between communities, offering economic aid and military protection for small communities that are interested in joining them, etc. If you look at the communities that joined the NCR, most of them ended up in a much better position then they did before. Vault 15, for example was transformed from a barely surviving community into a moderately wealthy farming town within weeks of joining the republic.

Also, unlike many wasteland communities, slavery is illegal in the NCR and the republic send out the NCR Rangers to hunt down and arrest slavers on a regular basis. Plus their senate is actually elected by their citizens in a general election, something that even the Enclave couldn't achieve within their own organization.

But again, years have passed since Fallout 2 and the NCR might have changed for the worst. But even so it wasn't their own fault. They are currently fight a war on two fronts against the Brotherhood of Steel in the Core Regions and Caesar's Legion in their frontier terrorizes. And note that in both cases, the NCR wasn't the one who started the war, they are just protecting themselves and are on the defensive. So it is possible that they are engaging in questionable acts, but remember, desperate times calls for desperate measures.

Also, just look at all the other major factions around. Other then the branch in DC, the Brotherhood is only interested in studying technology and not about helping innocent people; The Enclave are a bunch of genocidal Fascist, and Caesar's Legion are a group of slavers and Roman want-to-be that goes around conquering every single community they come across. The New California Republic is not just the less of the evils, it is the greatest good for all.

not "for all". Like I said, I depends on your point-of-view: even if you are a "good" character, the NCR aren't necessarily your natural option.

The NCR might be doing some bad things to the locals, but if you look at their pass actions they are the only guys around that have a plan of resorting civilization. Everyone else either doesn't care (West Coast Brotherhood, Mr. House), lack the resources to actually do anything (East Coast Brotherhood, Followers of Apocalypse), or are out right crazy (The Enclave, Caesar's Legion).

Remember, good doesn't always mean nice. The NCR are not angles or Saints, but they are humanities best hope in the long run.

I'm sure Adolf Hitler or Napoleon had a plan of "restoring civilisation" too. Whether you actually liked their version of civilisation is another matter...

I am not entirely sure about Mr. House's goals and political aims for me to comment on him. But he seems to represent the current status quo. He vision for the future of the wasteland and New Vegas is the same as its present. He is more interested and concerned in keeping New Vegas as his own personal 'time capsule' of the 'good old days' of the old world and hiding in it instead of rebuilding and furthering the cause of civilization.

Hmm yeah maybe. I see this as a "FO1/2 players think NCR are good" thing, whereas I have never come across them before so I'm taking them on face value, just another gang in the desert pointing guns at me. I will judge them by their actions, not their rep.

(like - the BOS in FO3 turned out to be the good guys, a complete turnaround from earlier games. Until we play, we don't know if the NCR have gone the other way, become as bad as the Enclave they fought against)

Thanks for the information, Thomas Chan. It sounded like a very reasonable assessment. I will probably end up supporting the NCR even if there is a certain degree of corruption -- it's likely unavoidable in any government due to the nature of politicians, and nothing is more sorely needed in the wasteland than the rule of law. In any case, Caesar's Legion is unquestionably immoral, and needs to be dismantled. The same probably applies to Mr. House, who practically lets criminal gangs run New Vegas.

As far as I can tell the NCR isn't even a republic in the strictest sense of the word, it is actually an indirect democracy. Because I can find no mention anywhere of a constitution or charter so there are no laws "set in stone", so I can only believe that it will eventually devolve into either a fascist/socialist dictatorship/oligarchy.

which is why I mentioned Hitler. Just because they build some bridges and fixed a few roads, they can do what they like and the population have to bow down and take it? How is that democracy? Sounds like invasion to me. That is (maybe) certainly how the people of Vegas see it. NCR are no better than the Legion to them. They already have Law and order. Civilisation. Power. Clean water. An economy. What do they need the NCR for?

And what will change if the NCR win? Maybe Nothing, except the NCR will be in control of the power. The water. And the taxes from rich residents (at the heel of a boot). They are going in for a spot of regime change so they can control the assets, nothing more. If they have to kill everyone in Vegas to get that? Well, it's for the greater good of civilisation, so why not? Erm...

(I think I just talked myself into siding with House lol)

I'd say NCR is more of a Fascist Democracy hybrid. Sure they have a congress and etc. But it seems like they assert themselves on you, whether you want it or not. Take a look at NCR funding a proxy terrorism rift in Fallout 2, it shows just how far NCR is willing to drop just to push upon outsiders their brand of justice.

I'll probably side with them my first playthrough

(1) The NCR is not going around conquering every community that they come across like Caesar's Legion is doing. They use diplomacy and offer economic incentives for them to join the republic voluntarily. Look at Vault 15 for example, the NCR could easily send out their military to take the vault by force, but instead, they hire you for finding a diplomatic solution. (In one of the ending in Fallout 2, they could have invaded Vault City, but as far as we know it isn't canon.)

(2) The NCR has a track record of dramatically improving the standards of living for the people under their rule. Something that other factions doesn't bother to do. Just look at these pictures:
Vault 15 before joining the NCR:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fo2_Vault_15_Squat.png
After joining the NCR:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fo2_Vault_15_Squat_PostNCR.png

(3) The NCR isn't committing genocide like the Nazis or the Enclave. In fact, they are one of the few factions that openly outlaw the discrimination against non-feral ghouls and reformed Super Mutants. They go as far as to accept them in their military and even their government. The Brotherhood on the other hand, shot ghouls on sight. Even the 'good' ones in DC still have this problem

(4) Again, slavery is outlawed in the NCR. Compare this to the West Coast Brotherhood, who doesn't care about other people; the Enclave, who uses slaves themselves; and the Caesar's Legion, in which their entire culture is based around enslaving other people.

It is easy to tell the difference between the civilized people and the barbarians. The civilized people doesn't have the right to take the land from the barbarians, but neither does the barbarians have the right to wipe out the civilized people. The problem is, the barbarians are not interested in diplomatic talks, so even the most civilized pacifist will have to defend themselves.

True; if it's not constitutionally limited, it's probably on the road to serfdom so to speak. Still, there doesn't seem to be any better alternative, and it doesn't seem reasonable to demand ideological perfection in the world of Fallout. Defeating the slavers is probably the highest moral imperative, and the NCR seems like the best ally in doing so.

@Thomas: I can see what you're saying, and maybe that was the case in California. The problem arises when they leave the "new CALIFORNIAN republic" and start expanding into other lands. They have huge forces, commanders who are probably following their own agendas, local forces who probably still have tribal allegiances (and put these before the NCR "creed"), plus they have weapons and power and money which is a dangerous combination. Who's to say they don't take over Vegas, and the local commander declares it the "New Vegas Republic" and cuts off ties completely with the NCR?

But then again maybe the NCR are the white-hats who ride into town and plant flower-gardens and everything is lovely. Given all the info we have about them in this game so far, I would be very surprised if that was the case.

I also hope that we can "redeem" NCR. I do wonder just how much of an appearance the Followers of the Apocalypse will make in New Vegas? They would make a good group to fill in a power vacuum. If nothing else, there is always the option of just taking out all of the corrupt people/groups and either taking over, or New Vegas to the "good people" who remain.

I'm not saying NCR is evil, they are currently the strongest force for good in the wasteland, regarding their funding of the raiders attacking vault city I personally think they were doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Vault city was largely dependent on slave labor and it's annexation by the NCR would have put a stop to that, unfortunately the NCR was largely motivated by vault city's superior technology. My argument is that it appears the entire government system could be changed by a simple majority of people instead of requiring a super majority leaving them extremely susceptible to totalitarian takeover.

I think that the NCR will stray away from their beliefs and go fascist on us. It would be perfect for fallout. My first character is gonna join the NCR.

That's patently ridiculous - there are plenty of governments in the real world today that don't neccesarily have simple "constitutions" based on the American model - the United Kingdom is the most obvious example. I've yet to see David Cameron declare himself "Lord Protector".

Furthermore, you're putting emphasis on a simple majority versus an absolute majority, when such things are indeed no protection against the sort of "fascism" that you claim to be against. The requirement of a supermajority for constitutional ammendments never stopped things like slavery, eugenic sterilisation programmes, or the prohibition of alcohol in the United States of America.

If you're worried that a nation would descend into totalitarianism based on a 50% + 1 vote, should you not logically fear the same occuring based on 66% + 1? Where does the threshold fall? At what point is the majority rejected?

In addition to this, I don't know that there is enough information about the NCR available to state conclusively that they do not in fact have a constitution that enshrines personal Rights and Freedoms.

Thanks for the great feedback everyone. Please be careful about using anologies to real world politics though, since that tends to make threads spiral out of control until they are deleted or locked.



I agree with this; there's really no way for any of us to tell. For all we know, they have a Constitution based on the one of the former Californian government.