Thoughts: No Attributes/ Unlimited Inventory? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:16 am

There has to be an inventory limit of some sort as having to decide which loot to take back sell/use is part of the fun.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:11 am

Most likely carry capacity is dictated by race AND enhanced by perks in the mercantile skill.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:27 am

How about tying it to maximum Stamina? Since we can choose to raise it when we level, it would also give an incentive to raise it instead of Health or Magicka, especially for mages.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:43 pm

There has to be an inventory limit of some sort as having to decide which loot to take back sell/use is part of the fun.

I always play Altmer mages, and the limited carrying capacity at low levels always seemed a fair part of the trade off against the increased magical abilities. It felt like an integral part of that type of character.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:58 pm

Do it like Fallout. Unlimited capacity but when you pass encumbrance you move slower/can't jump/ etc.. This is the backpacking mode mentioned except instead of allowing fast travel you get to defend yourself while you walk.

If was the same system as Oblivion but eased up a bit so you could still walk slowly, however so slowly nobody would abuse it. It was a pain to walk from Megaton gate to you house, far faster to drop something on the ground and go back and pick up.
But yes it was very useful then removing loot from companions and you was out of range from the container.
Absolutely something to keep, Fallout 3 was far more restrictive than Oblivion as it was no feather potions or spells and strength was hard caped on 10.
Fallout New Vegas has a perk that let you fast travel while carry to much loot but it had a high barter requirement.
No reason at all to have perks control encumbrance in TES as we have feather, and fortify strength. Please note that fallout had both strength tribute and strength buff.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:50 pm

Because there was a screenshot somewhere showing part of the "character sheet" part of the interface and there were no attributes visible and nobody from Bethesda has categorically refuted the "OMG no attributes?!?" claim.

Short version: Blatant assumption based on dodgy information or lack thereof.

Yes I assume so myself, lack clear confirmation that they are out and lack of RPG games without it.
Yes as other says, it’s quite possible to make an rpg without them, but why bother, you either give everybody the same properties like speed, carrying and jumping capabilities, you calculate them with some special method under the hood or you use attributes.

Yes you can use perks, we had perks that made you stronger in Fallout 3, and they raised the strength attribute.

More probably explanation, attributes are inn but far more in the background than I Oblivion. They are raised automatically on skill increase and / or by perks like in fallout.
Probably less important than in Oblivion, skills are also less important because of the perks.
They have not shown the attribute page as it looks like the skill one except more boring.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:59 am

I'd say the inventory limit is going to be fixed for all characters. So only whether you choose heavy armor and weapons or light equipment will affect how much loot you can carry. Not such a big departure from what it already was, really :mellow: .

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:42 am

I think one of the biggest illusions we as gamers labor under is that attributes are absolutely critical and necessary to the functions they serve.

What is an attribute? It's a name with a number next to it. That's all. What does the attribute by itself do? Nothing. In combination with a function that is given a direct relationship to that attribute, then raising or lowering it can do something. But is an attribute the only way that function can be managed? No.

They could link the function to a skill, or a combination of skills. When skills that seem to have a relationship to strength increase, they could have an invisible attribute performing the function of strength go up in tandem. Or it could be an average. Or it could be a combination of race and level (example: Orcs and Redguards have higher initial carrying capacity than Bosmer, and as they level, it gets higher.) Or it could be associated with level by itself. It could be a perk we can take.

All you would ever see under any of those potentials would be your emcumberance capacity rising as you leveled, raised a skill (or skills,) etc. You wouldn't ever have to see a magical attribute called "strength."

Yes attributes just numbers now, but before they was much more when attributes reach zero player die, deceases and stat draining curses and spells was much more then just make zero attribute, attributes represent body of player his physical abilities when skills are just how good you in doing something.
Both need to be in game not only skills, they both should complement each other from union of attributes and skills parameters are born health magicka and fatigue.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

I think attributes have the potential to be important. What if you want a smart Dunmer or a strong Altmer? Attributes allow you to change your character and evolve them in a way you'd like to see. Todd said in the podcast, that each Race begins with certain skill bonuses and special powers. But that means that every single Bosmer, will start the game the same way, other than skills. If I want a strong Bosmer, they should have the ability to carry more things than a weak Bosmer who is focused on Magic. I think the attributes allow characters to further distinguish themselves from others. Carrying unlimited or having a perk that allows you to carry more just doesn't track...IMHO. You should have stats that govern those types of things. We don't know exactly what it will look like, so I can't say 100% yet, but I truly do not like the idea of a character who only has skills/perks. It seems like it would affect too many in game factors.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:08 pm

Yes attributes just numbers now, but before they was much more when attributes reach zero player die, deceases and stat draining curses and spells was much more then just make zero attribute, attributes represent body of player his physical abilities when skills are just how good you in doing something.
Both need to be in game not only skills, they both should complement each other from union of attributes and skills parameters are born health magicka and fatigue.

I disagree. I do agree that it's nice to have them so that, conceptually, we have something that says, "you're this strong," or, "you're this intelligent." But the relationship between those sums and their functions doesn't have or need to be tied to attributes in my opinion. The same functions can be accomplished through myriad other means. Skills, perks, level, race, and any combination thereof could all be used to affect the same functions. The way they would be represented to us visually would just be different.

It's not like the attributes exist in reality anywhere but in our minds anywhere.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:29 am

I see someone mentioned carts? I haven't played Daggerfall, so I can only assume they are similar to push carts? Either way, a horse-drawn cart could also work, or a special larger breed of horses with saddlebags for loot storage could also work.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:39 pm

I disagree. I do agree that it's nice to have them so that, conceptually, we have something that says, "you're this strong," or, "you're this intelligent." But the relationship between those sums and their functions doesn't have or need to be tied to attributes in my opinion. The same functions can be accomplished through myriad other means. Skills, perks, level, race, and any combination thereof could all be used to affect the same functions. The way they would be represented to us visually would just be different.

It's not like the attributes exist in reality anywhere but in our minds anywhere.

Well because last TES games doesn't include much attribute checks (in dialogues or events) so thats why you don't see how they important, you just say fundamental part its not need, skills are based on attributes if there no attributes so how you can add new skills is skills are constant and does not change they are not.
You say perks but they also not fundamental the can be in one game and in another game developers will wish get rid of some of them.
level cant represent all characteristic of character if only level represent then where difference between mage ant warrior of the same level?
Race is good question but did you see somewhere whole race of twins all humans are different,
OK another question Nord has Strength but Orsimer also has it how different they are, does they has equal Strength how you can say it without fundamental attribute?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:38 am

The fact that they may take out attributes is bad enough, but inventory Limit!? Cmon? Do you want it to completely cease to be an RPG?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:05 am

Because there was a screenshot somewhere showing part of the "character sheet" part of the interface and there were no attributes visible and nobody from Bethesda has categorically refuted the "OMG no attributes?!?" claim.

Short version: Blatant assumption based on dodgy information or lack thereof.

yes, absence of proof does not mean proof of absence. Game is 9ish months off, we have nowhere near the info we need to base such claims.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:38 pm

As far as I'm concerned, they should just implement unlimited carrying capacity for all those min/maxers out there. It isn't like the games were ever realistic in what you could carry anyways. Those of us that prefer immersion already limit what we carry. We never even come close to the weight limits set by Bethesda.

I have a hard time buying into the argument that people want to have to pick and choose what they take. If you really wanted to have to do that, then you'd play like the immersionists. Maybe then, we'd have fewer people talking about how money is so useless.