One of the things which I cannot stand about raids in most other MMOs is that they are nothing more than glorified gear grinds. I understand the perceived need to make sure that there are always incentives for doing content, but I hate the way it is typically done. People don't do the raids for the sake of doing the raids. They do them to get the shinies. That wouldn't be so bad, except for the fact that in most MMOs, the gear drops randomly, and for some, not all, one piece of gear in the gear set for a given raid never seems to drop. It happens to enough people that the devs have to lie and say, "We are aware of the problem and are looking into it," when in fact it is working exactly as intended. It's a built in mechanism to pad out the content until the next raid is released.

What makes me say that? Because of the ironic fact that the "problem" presenting that piece of gear from dropping miraculously gets "fixed" right before the next raid comes out. And the new raid turns out to have the same exact problem. If developers are smart enough to solve the "problem" the first time, then they are smart enough to prevent it from happening the second time, and it always gets fixed just before the new content comes.

Like I said, it doesn't happen to everyone. But it happens to enough people that a pattern seems to be forming...

If raids/AZs in TESO are going to be gear grinds, then fine. It's an established MMO model to follow. People are sick of it, but who cares, right? It guarantees that people will follow the carrot on the stick, right? Whatever floats ZOS's boat, if that is the direction they take it.

I am going to proceed on a hunch that the content that will be released every 4-6 weeks will in fact be Adventure Zones. It only stands to reason that once people hit max level, and they wish to proceed directly with some sort of core plotline, that each AZ installment would present the next chapter, complete with a solo-able aspect that introduces the AZ's setting and plotline, and a group-oriented aspect that carries it on.

Let the group oriented aspect have multiple stages to complete, with a progressing storyline. Initially, After completing a stage, there would be a 168 hour delay on the unlocking of the next stage. That would be shortened by half each time a new AZ is released, thus allowing newcomers to catch up quicker, while still not being able to blast through everything all at once.

Loot rewards would be stage-based. So if stage 1's reward is a new weapon, then immediately upon completing the AZ at stage 1, you get the weapon. No random chance loot drops. Next week, when Stage 2 becomes available, there would be a new objective to achieve, which might lead the player into a new section of the zone, and the reward might be a chestplate.. I don't think we will ever again see MMO content for content's sake. Far too many people have been indoctrinated into the concept of incentivized content, where unless there's some sort of shiny reward associated with it, then it isn't worth doing, or that it must deliver experience points rather than were the experience is the point. So be it.

So let each stage, however many there must be, offer a piece of gear. Let the last stage be called the completed stage, where all paths are open, and where a general set of tasks can be completed in the zone once per week to get a 7-unit stack of some special consumable... Something useful but optional that would give people a reason to revisit the zone from time to time. The payout could only happen once per week, but the content could be run at any time, so those who have run a stage before can help their friends run it.

Thoughts?

We have no idea at the moment on how AZ zones are going to be like.

I have a feeling that most of the earlier content updates will include things that they could not get done by April. They stated that the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood will not be in at launch but will be added later on. Those two will likely have a lot of quests and other things to do. There could be other guilds being implemented as well.

The team stated that they will be looking at suggestions for upcoming content patches depending if they are feasible and fit in to the game.

Yeah, no, I highly doubt pretty much every single content update will just mainly be AZs.

Well since Azs offer content for everyone I dont have anything against it really if a lot of the dlcs are about them.

The main problem I see is that if they really implement some form of progression raiding then how is it balanced in regards to ava?

I very much dislike the 2 different item systems modern mmos use for pve and pvp.

The best method I think is to make progression raid items only that good during actual raids and scale them down in all other content (with nice looks but not better then any none raid weapon), it prevents other content like master dungeons to become way to easy and pvp from becoming unbalanced due to these items.

Of course one could also have zero item progression at a certain point though then people will complain because they have no carrot anymore (which is an important part for lots of players for example in Guildwars it really bothered me that my character was practically finished and I could do nothing at all anymore to make him better [before the fractal stuff]).

So quite a difficult situation, is there any word on that yet?

Gear you get from AZs won't be any better than gear you would get from PvP/Crafting/50++ content.

well i dont like the idea of locking out content, especially for a week. i personaly enjoy thr hunt for new gear, even with the grinding involed. if i cant play the game the way i want during the time i have availiable, then ill simply find another game.

The problem with such a system is that if a dungeon/az etc is beaten once there really is no need to visit it again both from a roleplaying perspective and from a progression perspective.

I dont really mind since hopefully ava will be where I am most of the time, however the mostly/only pve dungeon-progression crowd might get bored with nothing to do due to that.

Vertical progression isn't always that great. This game should be looking to be more horizontal than anything else.

Plus there is a lot they can do with AZs and the Veteran Point system to make people happy.

I completely disagree with this statement. Raids are one of the most fun aspects of an MMORPG, if not the most fun. The problem is that the fun Raids are really hard (for example normal and Heroic difficulty raids in WoW are super fun), while the easier versions of raids (for example LFR in WoW) are total crap. Some people have never experienced the fun Raids, which is too bad because they are they greatest experience in an MMORPG.

There is nothing more satisfying than downing a super difficult boss with your guild after weeks of trying. Its probably the most fun gaming experiences i have ever had.

Raids have everything an MMO should have, social interactions, difficulty and challenge, story, loot, guild and group pride, EVERYTHING!!!! It is the ultimate expression of an MMORPG. If you think about it, the rest of ESO PVE is just a solo experience, maybe with a friend if you are lucky.

I agree.

We disagree heartily on other aspects but I agree with you on this. I raid because of all thats involved, not just the loot.

As for the rest of the OP, just sounds like long winded ranting by a jaded MMO player. Not all MMO's are the same and assuming this MMO will be just another run of the mill MMO like all the rest is just ridiculous at this point. I mean if you really feel that way then why even play MMO's anymore? Find a new hobby would be the best advice i can give.

I don't really like the idea of locking content, either... the problem is that with ALL themepark MMOs is that no matter how fast its developers can release content, it gets consumed too quickly leaving people wanting more, but having to wait longer and longer for it.

The community will not pace itself with the release schedule. The developers cannot keep up with the community. The only viable solution is for the developers to SET the pace by regulating the flow of content.

Now I should clarify that I said that nobody should be barred from content once it opens. Anyone should be able to run it anytime they want. It's only during the first run that the full week lock on SPECIAL REWARD LOOT is in effect. As each subsequent content pack comes out, the delay would be reduced until it gets down to less than 1 day.

This allows newcomers to catch up easier, while keeping those who are consistently following the game on pace with what the developers can realistically handle.

It would be sort of like watching a TV show on Amazon Prime... Even though you can access the content anytime you want to, you still have to wait at least one week between episodes. Now as each episode is released, you have access to the entire season/series as it has currently aired. So the only ones facing delays are those who are current with the series. Anyone coming after them can chew through what is already there... but when they catch up, they'll be on pace with everyone else...

...key phrase: ON-PACE. Something that no themepark MMO I have ever played (except for GW2) has managed to pull off.

That might be true, but horizontal progression is always bad.

Uh not at all.

Not if it is fun to do, but then again not everyone will have fun, but the more options you have, than more chances for you to have fun with the content.