Instead of having classes I would like to see the Fallout style S.P.E.C.I.A.L system to choose if a person will be a medic, tank, stealthy character, etc. But I would also like to have different factions such as Brotherhood of Steel, NCR, different raider tribes etc. I think that would help with PvP and things of that sort. Does anyone agree?

Yea, I wouldn't mind for it to be very similar to fallout1/2 levelsystem.

If you wanted to be a little bit good at healing, but you still wanted to be a very good sniper that would be easily fixed. Get 75 first aid and put everything else on small guns. There are so many good combinations you can do.

I hope by tank you mean machine gunner type of tank rather than an Warcraft or D&D style tank. :/



Pretty much this. When ever I have to choose a class in single player anyway, I just create a custom class and call it wanderer, soldier or something else generic.

Defacto classes form around good perks anyway (i.e. Taking Stat! in Fallout Tactics tends toward being squad medics.) Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

I agree, fluent class systems are a lot more intriguing and immersive than the fixed classes.
With a fluent system it also follows that balancing issues become somewhat of a moot point - from a purely character versus character perspective. Conversely, extra attention needs to be paid to items and how they blend with affecting skills.
Got taken out as a level 20 by a level 10? Well of course, that level 10 bloke had dropped all his skillpoints from creation until now into Energy Weapons, and had found a nice little plasma pistol aswell. You had spent all yours on Sneak, Science and Lockpick. On the other side, you had a lot more caps and better equipment when you were level 10, a lot more, seeing as you could scavenge every single thing you came across, and rarely needed to confront anyone when you didn't fancy it.
Only "problem" that arises is that some skills might become underused, but then again, that only adds to the flavour - and lure for those who actively search to fill out underpopulated roles.

Haha thats exactly what I mean I just didnt know what else to call it.

My thoughts on classes are: FORGET ABOUT CLASSES!!!
Class should depends of skills set, but not vice versa. Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

I actually didn't think about it when I read over it earlier, but how is gamesas going to treat hacking and lock-picking in the game? It would feel stupid to have it like FO 3/NV and be able to log off the computer at any time and go back in as if it never happened or break several bobby pins attempting to pick a very hard lock. In my opinion you would not be able to break more than 2 bobby pins and only be able to hack attempt 4 times. This would add a skill and patience perspective to the game.

As for traps, make them blow up on anyone within range (big range). Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

My post in this thread sums up my opinion on classes and the SPECIAL system nicely: http://www.gamesas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10085&start=10

Read it and tell me what ya think, that thread seems to be dieing and I want to hear feedback, heheh.

I kinda like classes in some ways.

If gamesas does do classes, i would like to see faction specific sub-classes!

Example: Brotherhood of steel sub-classes would be paladin, knight, and scribe.

But to get sub-classes, you have to be liked (Or idolized, whichever seems better) by that faction.

Your officially going on my enemy list. Quit giving bad ideas! Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

Your officially going on my enemy list. Quit giving bad ideas!

Hardy har har.

Im just trying to give out my ideas.

I'm sorry, emoticons bring out the worst of me Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

Yes I do like what you are saying but I personally would call those classes. I would call those professions. And I definitely want to see professions. Mercenary, Caravan Merchant, Children of the Apocalypse Scientist, etc.
And I think most of the professions should be class specific.

I would like to see basic starting classes that can transform into something.

ex. I choose a "warrior" class and I will have more physical powers and orient on tanking, wearing heavy armore and close combat, allowing me to weild power fists, hammers, chain swords, ect close combat and perhaps a super crazy power armor. and if i went "Ranger" I would shoot more than close combat wear less crazy armore ect. and of course you need like the "healer" who does... healing... No one would learn any special moves or anything but would have varing begining stats.

The idea is to have a base char setting that will allow you to really change as you progress but give you a slight path and abilitys to follow. The "tank" could still learn to shoot and what not as he leveled but would always be better at close combat than the "ranger" I know many people would be agaisnt this but it allows for a lot easier pvp, grouping, and item balancing.

And why not just be able to max out everything just by using them a.k.a. Ultima online style.And then become better in something by comleting some quests or joining certain factions.

For example all to be able to reach 100% in all skills,BUT make a choice around the midle levels on what kind of bonus or hindrance you will gain in your skills by comleting certain quests/joining factions.Then you will be able to redistribute again certain points and unlock certain perks while loosing some others.

Example:You have a lvl 11 char that focus on small weapons lockpicks and stealth.You join the thieves circle(why oh why didnt we see them after fo1?)complete some quests and now you have the bonus of maxing your stealth,steal,lockpick,traps,speach,small weapons to 150% while areas such as big/energy weapons,repair,barter,science are deminished to a max of 60%.Meanwhile you loose access to assosiated perks and gain others.

Sure, and then we get an army of two that have 100% skill in everything and nothing can kill them. That is starting to sound like another game which got boring really quick. I find it funner to have to play with someone who can open the vault and be forced to share the items. Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

The whole idea of classes is TERRIBLE for V13! Classes seems to go against the whole idea of fallout, any char can do anything if they really want to. Please don't pigeon hole me into some lame combat only powers just because thats the part I like the best. I still want to be able to do science, repairs, etc...
Basically what I'm saying is that a class system is FAR to restrictive for the Fallout universe.

Don't worry there's 9/10 chance it will be non-restrictive. Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

First of all in any good game it is not the skill level you have but how you use it.So if you are a good player and want to kill someone else find a good smart/skillfull way and do it.If you cant use your skills good(and i dont mean requiring five hands for macros i mean find their right uses and use your brains for a change)and you depend on those skills to make you uber just by existing then a the whole game is at loss and you would be better playing an FPS.
My point is exactly what you say in your last sentence if i get right.You cant open the vault because you cant advance your lock picks/hacks to the same level as another char but you advance to some point were you can get some medium level locks/computers.So you still need specialists.What i advocate is that no char should be excluded for a certain lvl of all skills.But if you want to reach the top you have to specialise in some and forfeet some others.This would be good to be done midlegame since you will have a good taste of the game mechanics and know what will do the tick for you. -Duke:I am looking for some alien toilet to bag my bricks,whose first?

First of all in any good game it is not the skill level you have but how you use it.So if you are a good player and want to kill someone else find a good smart/skillfull way and do it.If you cant use your skills good(and i dont mean requiring five hands for macros i mean find their right uses and use your brains for a change)and you depend on those skills to make you uber just by existing then a the whole game is at loss and you would be better playing an FPS.
My point is exactly what you say in your last sentence if i get right.You cant open the vault because you cant advance your lock picks/hacks to the same level as another char but you advance to some point were you can get some medium level locks/computers.So you still need specialists.What i advocate is that no char should be excluded for a certain lvl of all skills.But if you want to reach the top you have to specialise in some and forfeet some others.This would be good to be done midlegame since you will have a good taste of the game mechanics and know what will do the tick for you.

Indeed, the idea of everyone being able to max their skills given enough "progession" (as we still don't know if it'll be level based - as far as i know, anyway) is quite discouraging.
That being said, i would rather see a system that depended on usage rather than time spent, as a means of limiting progress. The difference is minute, but tentative.

Say you fancy lockpicking and sneaking around, do that a good deal, and you gradually start to gain points in those areas.
If you don't like those things, it'll be something you have to "grind" and wouldn't want to use anyway.
Now of course such a mechanic would need limitations to avoid the good ol' Morrowind "jump till i level" abuse.
So for sneaking, avoiding detection when the possibility of being noticed is there would count towards increasing that skill, using a weapon would increase skill, given the target is hard enough compared to your level.
Making those sort of balancing mechanics would avoid overly specialised characters, but still let you choose to go in a different direction, without having to create a new character - should you happen to be past the mid-section of the game. And still let people specialise should they want to, yet to some extent still make the game a game where player X can specialise and reach "optimal skill" sooner than player Z who's played many months and managed to go "PING!" enough times.

End result for a specialised character: He may be able to unlock your dads bra, but he wouldn't know which way to point a gun.