Scavengers also pick stuff up. I had no problem understanding how the traders got stuff with out seeing them get it.

Scavengers walk around with flame throwers and pet bears. Its not hard to imagine how they can get this stuff.

Did any of those traders have tons of food to supply cities like Rivet City? No one in Fallout 3 has anything worth buying because its all over the damn place. One of the Merchants "wolfgang" I think just sells junk. "Wow I can get this crap for free, but I am going to buy it from you." :rolleyes:

Imagining how tradres get stuff of little stuff like that is easy, but imagining who won nv pisses me off. You want to Imagine and speculate for years about who won nv, but you can t use a sliver of that imagination to figure something out in fo3.

Are you sure its just because no one from fo or fo2 worked on fo3.

You ll use you imagination in nv, but not fo3 is what it comes down to.

The reason is because fo3 was not a carbon copy of fo or fo2. Then anything they did borrow from fo or fo2 you [censored] about that too. Where they not original enough or were they too original?? Which is it?

Its a loose loose for them when it comes to the old dinosaur club. Good thing thdy picked up millions of new fans like myself or they would have to give up.

I though he was dumb too, but I already went over how Rivit City gets food. You have to imagine a little. Nothing like imagining who won nv for who knows how many years, but just a sliver of that.

The cw people might have bought his junk to build and fix stuff.

Ok so there he helped keep people going

I am sure it has nothing to do with Bethesda. Don't drag that in. Yeah you think it svcks not knowing who controls New Vegas. I think it svcks we don't know what happens to anyone from Fallout 3. At least with New Vegas we have an idea, given info we can debate about. Fallout 3 were are given nothing! Which means years of pointless debate because no one has http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOYkGhAQdM

Educated guess on who ends up controlling New Vegas: NCR



Lucky for Bethesda years for crap by Michael Bay and people like him have made peoples expectations very low. (Cheap shot)

We can speculate on what the cw will become since we actually know what happened there.

A nv canon ending fight is worse than anything. Have you read some of those?? NV vs fo3 threads don t even get that nasty.

Nice van down by the river link lol I don t know how they could do that live and barely ever crack a smile.

I do agree with you Styles that all game types have got dumbed down. Im sure you know its not just fo. Its every game on the market. They got easier so people can dominate faster, and with way less thought.

We can pointlessly speculate about Fallout 3. We don't know what happened there. What happened to Magaton,Tenpenny Rivet City, Fawks, Charon, Android Guy from Rivet City, Rivet City, Three Dog, and much much more. We don't know crap. What happened if the Enclave succeeded in their plan? What happened if we went and destroyed the Brotherhood HQ? WE DON'T KNOW! Its pointless to speculate because no one knows. We have to wait years till Fallout 4 :banghead: Even then we might not findout.

New Vegas and its ending narrows it down and give use ideas. I already know what the canon ending is: NCR! based on how NCR is the main faction. NCR was in Fallout (shady Sands), Fallout 2 and now we see it once again expanding.



Its very sad, but why does it have to keep declining. Why does Fallout have to be dumbed down? Why not try something daring and make it so you need some brain cells. New Vegas does that better then Fallout 3.

I agree about the mgs all the way, but I think there is a game tech reason things are not more like that pic you have there. Mounted mgs should be everywhere in both games for defense.

I just hope the new engine can hold more people and things going on at once too. Where did you get that pic? I wish Paradise Falls was like that. They even have a mini sam missle there......

While I'm usually not on board with the whole "make things more civilized, more believable" idea. I kinda like rhis idea.

I think if nothing else, the towns in Fallout 3 would have benefited in terms of "believability" if the idea of herding Brahmin had been implemented a bit better.

Fallout 3 concept art on Bethesda's site. This site technically. I hope Fallout 4 has .50cal machine guns for city defence.

You would think that if they had them in concept art they would have them in game. You would also think that NCR would have mgs mounted all over the dam. I just think its something about the engine.

Even in nv where ever the most people are at, or there is a lot going on at once that is when it is most likely to freeze or get choppy.

A carrier from 50s time would have so many guns on it it wouldn t even be funny. Todays carriers more guided missles, and more relie on the aircraft, and all the escort vessels to protect them.

Depends which era carrier they were going for there. They planes are kind of like 60s migs in a way.

Point is the carrier if 50s era should have had a huge amount of machine guns, and aaa 20mm, 40mm and even some 5inch guns.

Done right Rivit City would rain death for miles.

My understanding was Rivet City was supposed to be anologous USS Barry (admittedly a destroyer) in the real world - a museum ship. If it were a museum ship I don't think it would have a huge stock of ammo;

Yeah, it probably wouldn t have any to be on the safe side.

Does DC have a drydock that can refit an aircraft carrier? If so then it would not be hard to imagine it was there to be upgraded. I don't see any evidence of a drydock.

One thing i got to say, Bethesdas Art Department did really great, too bad the programmers couldnt put it all into place.

There's all those things in F3 and NV, the reason the towns aren't heavily populated is because controlling large numbers of NPCs is difficult for low spec systems, there are water sources (the whole plot of F3 is built around water), there is farming in NV and there are a lot of new buildings.

And you're talking about realism by pointing to an earlier game, I'm pointing out that, among other things, the reason the Whitehouse is hole in the ground and the buildings across the street are intact is because it's a computer game and IRL they aren't across the street, just as you can't actually run from Searchlight to Las Vegas in a few hours while carrying enough weapons to start a small war.

First I am well aware that New Vegas has farming. Thats one of the reasons I like New Vegas over Fallout 3. New Vegas shows signs of humanity rebuilding. Different cultures rebuilding in their own way and having to deal with one another. "War, war never changes" ring any bells for you? Fallout and Fallout 2 were about rebuilding and dealing with conflict. Fallout 3 is just Good vs Evil and Explosions to replace writing.

I know Fallout 3 is all about water. Where did people get water for the 200 years before project purity started working? New Vegas explains why many building still stand. Fallout 3 does not. Fallout and Fallout 2, cities are burned to the ground, buildings nothing but burned out looted shells. Fallout 3 everything is still standing and the white house is the only land mark that was destroyed :banghead:

Out of the five canon Fallout games, Fallout 3 is the odd game out, IMO. The devs did not care that they game is set 200 years after the great war. If the place was such a crap place to live, then why live there? Drinking radioactive water and eating radioactive pre-war food for generations, I am surprised the people of DC arn't some mutant race of walking tumors! Radiation was gone in the west 84 years after the great war. Way more destruction caused there and yet people managed to farm and rebuild. DC no progress after 200 years!

I'm sorry, but... really?

Are you actually suggesting that the conflicts with the F2 Enclave and the F1 Master were grayer? Both were explicitly out to ANNIHILATE humanity (or almost all of it).

If anything, Colonel Autumn was a great deal more justifiable than either given he just wanted to use the Purifier to take over the Wasteland.



It's fairly clear that the reason people don't rebuild more is the lack of ABUNDANT water. They have the big water purifier in Megaton and a fresh water supply in some other places but not enough for large scale population growth.

In RL, people can purify water with some tubing and so on but it's not going to make lakes of the stuff.



Yeah, it's ridiculous. The Capital Wasteland feels like 50 years after the Apocalypse instead of 200. I justify it by saying that actual NUKES weren't dropped but Neutron bombs.

I think Fallout makes a lot more sense with a war fought with neutron bombs (I understand the idiocy of applying logic to a world of super mutants, ghouls, psychics, and so on) but they're effectively, "all radiation - no boom."

Which would explain why much of DC is standing but everyone is dead and the land is highly radioactive.

See this guy above me ^ he knows





FO3 IS THE GREATEST ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!

It is my second favorite game of all time (after New Vegas)

Normally, I don't approve of remakes by people uninvolved in the original but I give credit where credit is due. Betheseda made one long loving homage to the Fallout series and expanded on a lot of its themes. It's really one gigantic "greatest hits" of the original two games.

Enclave, Super Mutants, Deathclaws, The Vault Dweller, The Brotherhood of Steel, Radroaches, Ghouls, the Enclave.

Does it make sense? Not really.

I point out, however, this is a game series where one of the two classic games have a major plot point being handed to them by a giant intelligent rat.

Edit:

Honestly, I also question where all this moral ambiguity is supposed to be in New Vegas. Mister House and NCR? Yes, I can see that. However, compared to the Enclave, Caesar's Legion pretty much comes off as a "greatest hits of why geeks would hate them."

(Slaver Hunting being a classic sport amongst my fellow gamers - Zombie Lincoln build especially)

I get why people love their play-through. I also get why I have an Evil Karma save of a female lover of Mister Burke who blew up Megaton because she liked the sparkly and only failed to kill everyone in the Capital Wasteland because that would mean less slaves to sell. Really, the Enclave in the Capital Wasteland comes off as saner than Caesar's Legion and they answer to a genocidal super computer never meant to be sentient.

1. I've never seen Enclave as anything but evil but I do consider Master to be a good guy with a noble plan.
So yes, while he wanted humanity gone he wanted it for a good reason and I fully support him. (If only he would have sticked to his plan and developed a cure for the sterility. )

2. I've forgotten some FO3 lore, do we have any lore or canon stating that the nukes dropped over DC were neutron bombs?

[edit]

3. "It's really one gigantic "greatest hits" of the original two games."

3. Seems like the classical rock greatist hits got remixed into trance songs.



4. "Honestly, I also question where all this moral ambiguity is supposed to be in New Vegas. Mister House and NCR? Yes, I can see that. However, compared to the Enclave, Caesar's Legion pretty much comes off as a "greatest hits of why geeks would hate them."

4. Strange, I consider Legion to be the good guys while NCR is the bad guy while House is a good guy with a bad execution of his plans. (By the way, what's with the "greatist hits" thing?)



5. "I point out, however, this is a game series where one of the two classic games have a major plot point being handed to them by a giant intelligent rat."

5. Wait what?



6. "Really, the Enclave in the Capital Wasteland comes off as saner than Caesar's Legion and they answer to a genocidal super computer never meant to be sentient."

6. How so? Legion believes in restoring humanity by eliminating all the mutations in society and culture and by placing everyone under one banner in order to unify the wasteland. Way better plan than "Kill everything" that Enclave has going for them.

There's a talking mole rat in Fallout 2 (which I agree is ridiculous, as are the talking spore plant and chess playing radscorpion), but he has nothing to do with the plot.

I guess he means either http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brain or http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Keeng_Ra%27at. Neither of them have aything to do with any major, or even minor plotpoints, though.

Thanks, it was a good idea of Tim Cain (basically, the creator of Fallout). It seems the ethics of what people will do to survive in that post-nuclear scenario is to do whatever it takes.

I think Fallout 3 probably sums up the game pretty well.
"Awe-inspiring world where every minute is a fight for survival."
As it says on the box but who reads boxes.

"Post nuclear apocalyptic scenario." could describe what type of game it is, but a "Humanity" game, as has been said, doesn't seem to cover it.