How exactly? Yea I know Ways of Walking but what did he do to achieve the disguise of Lorkhan then just Lorkhan? (He became Lorkhan when he died right?)
What would be the difference if he wanted to become Aka or Azura etc. (You can mantle into a Daedra, right?)

That's what I was saying earlier. The actual man himself was known as Hjalti, but I fully understand the concept of once apotheosis occurs, you've always been.

I don't think it was an intentional thing. One does not just go "I want to be Lorkhan today" and then start pretending to be Lorkhan. It just kind of happens.

I'm also not sure if you can mantle Daedric Princes. It seems unlikely, since I feel like a mortal would need that presence to be in the nature of the Mundus, and the Daedric Princes' natures are not inherently part of it. That's just wild assumption on my part though.

That was almost my point, though I communicated poorly. People who read enough of the lore see that Tiber Septim is one badass mofo, more so than Vivec, but people heap their flaming and trolling on Vivec for some reason.

And though the destination is the same I think the six paths really are distinct enough to consider them separate. If you fail CHIM you evaporate and if you fail Numidium you become a skin.
Are there failure consequences for enantiomorphy or mantling?

I don't think so. The way I see it, everyone is at the start of that path already, and "failure" just means you live and die as an ordinary guy.

What's most important is Vivec saying, "If you want to go to Heaven, there are several ways to do it." Transcendence: many ways, one Faith.


Maybe a tangent, but individual failure means you get to try again, as many times as you're reincarnate. Failure for the universe is the teeth-eyed stare of the Alinor Dragon, as many times as they reincarnate. Until humanity learns to open the doors of their spirit and love each other, all. To fill every man's heart, with the inertial gaze of Tower, into infinity more.

You are correct. The aedra are connected to the Mundus as they were a part of its creation. The Princes never had any part of that whatsoever, so they represent Padomay only.

Couldn't the events of Shivering Isles depict the CoC "mantling" Sheogorath, in a manner of speaking?

No. One does not "mantle" a Daedric Prince because one does not "mantle" a god.

You're all missing the obvious: politics.

Pardon. Could you clarify the correct way to use the term for me?

Would it be, for example, 'Talos used the process of mantling to assume Lorkhan's place' rather than 'Talos mantled Lorkhan'?

I'm saying all this talk of the mythical is blinding everyone to the political reality.

Ysmir, Hjalti, Arctus, and the Underking make a political allegiance in order to establish imperial rule over Tamriel. Tiber Septim is a creation of propaganda.

The story fed to the average denizen of the Empire is that Tiber Septim came from Atmora, and using a combination of diplomacy and military might forged the 3rd empire. But if the Arcturian Heresy is correct, the story people believe is a complete and utter lie.

For comparison: imagine learning George Washington never existed, but really John Adams and Thomas Jefferson shared a wig.

Again, pardon. I didn't see your post and was directing my question to Mr. Quimper.

And I agree with you. It was politics. But it did also happen to have profound mythical implications, including (and not limited to) the new reality that Ysmir, Hjaliti, Arctus, and the Underking's separate identities forged into one.

So we have Hjalti the man, Arctus the battlemage, Talos the General, Yismir the Nord anticipation and the Underking, well, the Underking. All together is Tiber Septim, but Hjalti was the body, the rest made up the persona.

Ah, okay.

(I still think this whole thread is missing the point: in this case, the mythical reality is a consequence of the political reality.)

Or the political reality is a consequence of the political(derp) mythical reality.

Tiber Septim did not mantle "Lorkhan" in the sense that you can mantle an Aedra or a Daedra or any individual god. Tiber Septim mantled "Lorkhan" in the sense that he recreated the creation event. Mantling is specifically and exclusively mantling Akatosh/Lorkhan and the Convention.

I think there's enough (deliberate) historical ambiguity that we will never be able to say that with certainty.