Tiber Septim's Birthplace : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:18 pm

Hm, well I've been interested lately in the county of Alcaire and notice they lay claim to the birthplace of Tiber Septim, yet I've seen refrences that he was born in Atmora, which seems unlikely since there's few to none people living there anymore (if I read right). Kinda hard to imagine that the first Emperor of Tamriel's birthplace would be shrouded in so much uncertainty. Is there no record or sure answer to where he was really born?

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:42 pm

The Atmora thing seems like propaganda to me. It reminds me of the story of the Three Kingdoms era of China when the warlord Liu Bei tried to make a connection between himself and the founder of the Han in the people's eyes - truth be damned. The story would elevate him in their eyes. Same with Tiber Septim IMO, although there's evidence that certain Shezzarines were present in the boats from Atmora.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:05 am

Both are correct; he's Ysmir, to the Nords and Talos, to the southern men. The former's from Atmora, the other wasn't. But they both were. Is that ok?

Here's MK's summary:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-arcturian-heresy

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:24 pm

As Hjalti Early-Beard, he was born in Alcaire. As Wulfharth, he was born in Atmora. As Ysmir, he was born at High Hrothgar. As Talos, he was born at Sancre Tor. As Tiber Septim, he was born at the White-Gold.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:07 pm

You forgot Zurin Arctus.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:49 pm

You forgot Zurin Arctus.

I don't think we know anything about Zurin Arctus' early life, do we?

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:42 pm

If I knew where Zurin Arctus was born, I would have said so.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:02 pm

See, I'm confused by this. He is all three? or just different interpretations and thus three different people, but one?

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:02 pm

The story of Tiber Septim is the story of a man who recreated himself again and again, who willed himself to become a god. It is not a mistake that his origins are shrouded in mystery and disagreement.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Wasn't he born in High Rock?

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:53 pm

Hjalti was born in High Rock. He's just one of the facets.

"1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N"

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:33 pm

So Tiber was Lorkhan in disguise is the jest?

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:10 pm

He became Lorkhan in disguise, then just Lorkhan.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:34 pm

So Tiber was Lorkhan in disguise is the jest?

Well... It was more like the whole aim of Tiber was to wear the mantle/disguise of Lorkhan. And it's not so much a jest as it is a grand recurrence of the archetypal themes that shape Tamriel.

By the way, thanks to you I just realized we can change our fonts. Awesome.

» Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:39 am

Hjalti was born in High Rock. He's just one of the facets.

"1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N"

I remember that MK post. But I thought Hjalti was the actual physical man Tiber Septim, yet Talos had all the different facets (obviously Shor as well).

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:29 pm

I remember that MK post. But I thought Hjalti was the actual physical man Tiber Septim, yet Talos had all the different facets (obviously Shor as well).

The way I understand it, Tiber Septim is, from our perspective, an uncertain and vague amalgamation of all those men. They're all aspects of the oversoul, and the oversoul is the Tiber we know.

"The second to see the Brass God was the Enantiomorph. You may know them individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. The Oversoul was known to the world as Tiber Septim "

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm

Well... It was more like the whole aim of Tiber was to wear the mantle/disguise of Lorkhan. And it's not so much a jest as it is a grand recurrence of the archetypal themes that shape Tamriel.

By the way, thanks to you I just realized we can change our fonts. Awesome.

Ahhh, alright, I think I understand a bit more now. Thank you all.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:36 pm

The man is a constant-self-reinvention as befits the Anu/Padomay compromise that he became.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:47 pm

Ahh how silly of me to forget the basic main points of the Arcturian Heresy. So basically all the public saw was the oversoul after all the events with the Underking after the souls of Zurin, Wulf, Hjalti (and others combined). Or something like that haha.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:37 pm

Ahh how silly of me to forget the basic main points of the Arcturian Heresy. So basically all the public saw was the oversoul after all the events with the Underking after the souls of Zurin, Wulf, Hjalti (and others combined). Or something like that haha.

Something like that.

I haven't really wrapped my head around it, I just throw up my arms and say "It's awesome! Good enough for me."

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:32 pm

They saw Tiber, and everyone else. Everyone appeared at some time and place. That's in the Heresy, too.

Maybe part of identity is being identified. :teehee:

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:37 pm

So was the guy an enantiomorph who achieved CHIM then mantled Lorkhan? And people say that Vivec was over powered.

» Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:55 am

The man who became the Emperor was born Hjalti in Alcaire, just as the man who became Vivec was born the son of a netchiman. But he made his own myth, and now he has many histories.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:37 pm

That's not what I was saying. I start a Morrowind thread on an imageboard and people come up saying that after reading the lore Vivec seems like a mary-sue author-avatar bad-writing-hyphenated-buzzword.

I was just remarking that according to various sources Talos/Tiber/whatever is an enantiomorph, has CHIM, and mantled Lorkhan, which is fully half of the Walking Ways if we don't have him as using the Prolix Tower (Thu'um according to some) (we know he hasn't achieved Numidium or the Scarab), whereas Vivec just has CHIM.

Of course, Talos not actually being in any of the games besides as an easter egg in Morrowind or the prophet in KotN might mitigate things.

» Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:40 pm

So mechanistic.

Don't add up the walking ways like they're power points. Dividing them up as meaning different things is something that isn't even done most of the time, though I'm sure it's in vogue now because of that one post. When Michael Kirkbride used the Red King Once Jungled as an example of CHIM changing the world, he didn't mean to identify Tiber Septim as "having CHIM" in addition to mantling Lorkhan, they're two paths to the same thing! The same with the Enantiomorph.

Vivec and Tiber Septim are characters uesd as meditations on the same thing. One is directed inward, the other outward.

And people on imageboards don't know [censored].