TIE - Tamriel Immersion Experience : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:45 am

Those are not issues, it's meant to be like that. It's supposed to be hard. And that's the best thing about it

it's definitely challenging so not anyone can use it.

I can understand the initial difficulty, but the sneak thing is just bad. It's not realistic for someone to detect you from another room. I major in sneak to.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:19 pm

I can understand the initial difficulty, but the sneak thing is just bad. It's not realistic for someone to detect you from another room. I major in sneak to.

Well, try to walk slowly while sneaking, take off your shoes and armor and use just plain clothes, and have your weapon sheated. I'm not experiencing the sneaking to be so hard (and quite unrealistic too) but I use Stealth overhaul. You should try it and see if it makes any difference.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6359
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31908

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:52 am

It really seems great from my tutorial experience, but there's 2 issues I ran into.

It's Extremely hard. The rats weren't a problem, but I had to run past most of the goblins. After the Emperor's death when I went into the sewers, I had to run. I died at least 5 times trying to run too.

It's impossible to sneak. It would take away some of the difficulty if I were able to sneak, but monsters that aren't even in the same room as me detect me. For an example, when I walking into the sewers I was immediately detected by a Rouge Mage in the next room.

VS made YouTube videos to help you break your mind "out of the box".

Don't forget you have a difficulty slider to dynamically change your game when you want. Remember that the tutorial is mostly scripted so you can't get by a few goblins and some rats. They are programmed to come rushing.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:27 pm

The conflict with MOBS is probably unavoidable, and removing that would remove much of the soul of what makes TIE challenging. Part of the appeal is that you can't just rush into a fight foolishly because you'll get beat down pretty fast. MOBS damage levels don't come anywhere close to what TIE offers, and it's easy to pick out which ones don't match when you're in a fight with something non-vanilla that's been affected by it.

I don't remember all of the stuff from Morrowind as far as ingredients but TIE doesn't look to have a whole lot. I see scrib jelly, kwama cuttle, and moon sugar that stand out, but much else I can't really remember without spending some time looking it up at UESP.

"In-Game Time Goes by Less Quick" is just the timescale setting, which is set to 12 by default instead of 30. Not much really to be done there unless you want that changed, and in order to do so you'd need to use the console or find a way to update that via script once the game was started. It won't change at all if you add TIE after you're already going.

Modularization isn't necessarily bad, but at some point if you pull enough parts out, you're just not playing TIE anymore. You're playing instead with a dash of TIE's features.

I'm certainly not going to start picking pieces from other overhauls out to add to TIE's core either. TIE already spreads a great many additional spawn points throughout the game world.

I'm not saying I want to pull things apart and have other overhauls fill in the gaps or add to it. The problem is that not one out of all the overhauls only overhauls vanilla stuff, it has to add more that doesn't IMO mesh well with vanilla. You claim that it goes hand in hand, and maybe it does but I just don't want that stuff part of my game. TIE and Frans are the only overhauls that are close to this vision but they still add their own touches. I'm just saying that I want to be able to tweak it to be more vanilla like is all.

I believe that TIE does the best job at fixing the leveling issues of the game, would it really be hard to make that standalone?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:09 am

I believe that TIE does the best job at fixing the leveling issues of the game, would it really be hard to make that standalone?

If you want unleveled lists as stand alone (not including TIE NPCs) then check out the esp in http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7902 from readme:

Spoiler

30) Undermined Leveled Gameplay - Creature Edition (version 1)

This plug-in undermines the leveled gameplay in Oblivion, although it doesn't completely disable it. There is now a chance of encountering any type of creature in the wilderness (provided you are in the right region) regardless of your level. NPC (Bandits, Necromancers, Town Guards etc.) attributes, skills and spells are still leveled though.

Note: This affects the content in the original, unmodified Oblivion game. Content from user-made mods, official mods or expansions may or may not be affected.

COMPATIBILITY WARNING: This plug-in edits some important parts of the game and may not be compatible with some non-M.O.E. mods. Please don't ask whether this is compatible with mod X or not. I rarely play other user-mods so I probably don't know.

Updates: This plug-in was never updated as this is the 1st version...

31) Undermined Leveled Gameplay - Item Edition (version 1)

This plug-in undermines the leveled gameplay in Oblivion, although it doesn't completely disable it. With this plug-in, the items you find in dungeons, on creatures, on NPCs or in a merchant's container no longer depend on your level at all.

Note: This affects the content in the original, unmodified Oblivion game. Content from user-made mods, official mods or expansions may or may not be affected.

COMPATIBILITY WARNING: This plug-in edits some important parts of the game and may not be compatible with some non-M.O.E. mods. Please don't ask whether this is compatible with mod X or not. I rarely play other user-mods so I probably don't know.

Updates: This plug-in was never updated as this is the 1st version...

If you do want those encounters then it will need TIE as a master. Such a thing already exists in the SM TIE4Mods which I linked to above. You can opt only for the leveled lists if you want and not use game settings. It is based off TIE 1.25 though.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:22 pm

btw I just ran TES4Edit cleaning on 1.40 in case you need to know:

Spoiler

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» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:28 pm

I believe that TIE does the best job at fixing the leveling issues of the game, would it really be hard to make that standalone?

It may or may not be the best at unleveling the game, but everything TIE does add meshes perfectly well with itself. Veritas was very careful with the added NPCs and tweaked creature variants not to get carried away and have stuff that didn't fit. There are no external resources used, so there should be nothing in TIE that looks or feels out of place.

You only get "it doesn't fit" issues when you start mixing content from other overhauls in much the same way throwing TIE into FCOM makes things not fit.

It seems like you're seeking a type of perfection that can't exist. I'm of the firm belief that if you want to play an overhaul, play THAT overhaul. Don't try and wedge them all together because unless you're prepared to put in years of work to sort out the philosophy differences, you'll just have mish-mash.

btw I just ran TES4Edit cleaning on 1.40 in case you need to know:

The Nexus copy is already cleaned - one of the things I did before uploading it there

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:52 pm

It seems like you're seeking a type of perfection that can't exist. I'm of the firm belief that if you want to play an overhaul, play THAT overhaul. Don't try and wedge them all together because unless you're prepared to put in years of work to sort out the philosophy differences, you'll just have mish-mash.

I totally agree, If an overhaul did this I would only use it. Which is why I used Frans alone for so long, but it has many issues.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:58 am

It may or may not be the best at unleveling the game, but everything TIE does add meshes perfectly well with itself. Veritas was very careful with the added NPCs and tweaked creature variants not to get carried away and have stuff that didn't fit. There are no external resources used, so there should be nothing in TIE that looks or feels out of place.

You only get "it doesn't fit" issues when you start mixing content from other overhauls in much the same way throwing TIE into FCOM makes things not fit.

It seems like you're seeking a type of perfection that can't exist. I'm of the firm belief that if you want to play an overhaul, play THAT overhaul. Don't try and wedge them all together because unless you're prepared to put in years of work to sort out the philosophy differences, you'll just have mish-mash.

The Nexus copy is already cleaned - one of the things I did before uploading it there

bleh I got mine before that.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:49 am

Very well could be the save your using - reports like this generally are best backed up by testing with new game.

Probably be a good idea to have your character wait in an isolated cell for all cells to respawn - that is 3 days vanilla, but mods, bash, and console commands can change that. This will reset all encounters and such so that changes will be reset to TIE standards.

would anyold interior do?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:08 am

would anyold interior do?

Just be alone and make sure that it is longer than the cell respawn time.

Generally though with overhauls the recommendation is to start a new game. I'm not certain if it is recommended to adjust NPC levels (or if that is at all advisable with TIE) using Wrye Bash.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:21 am

Just be alone and make sure that it is longer than the cell respawn time.

Generally though with overhauls the recommendation is to start a new game. I'm not certain if it is recommended to adjust NPC levels (or if that is at all advisable with TIE) using Wrye Bash.

hmmm, new game then perhaps, well, this one was mainly mod testing i guess

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:10 am

No harm in applying TIE to an in-progress game. The Wrye Bash function to adjust NPC levels will fix things, but only after you've spend the respawn time.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:19 am

Is it "safe" to use TIE with mods like The Ayleid Steps, Kragenirs Death or Integration or are there any big balance issues?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:12 am

It's no less "safe" than using FCOM with any of those. You'd just need to be mindful that baddies packing vanilla weapons in those mods will be able to hurt you a lot easier, and that mod-added weapons from any of them aren't likely to be as vicious as the stats on what TIE edits.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:33 pm

It's no less "safe" than using FCOM with any of those. You'd just need to be mindful that baddies packing vanilla weapons in those mods will be able to hurt you a lot easier, and that mod-added weapons from any of them aren't likely to be as vicious as the stats on what TIE edits.

That weapon issue is easy to solve, I could either use MOBS + kuertees Attribute-based and skill-based damage modifiers or Duke Patricks melee and archery mods. So only monsters and NPCs are doomed to have different power level but maybe that's not really an issue after all.

I have one request too. It would be awesome if you could patch LAMEs summoned creatures to be more TIE-like.

Also I hace a bug to report. Enchanted madness claymores don't have their enchantments, at least that was the case in v1.39.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:46 am

Hi all,

IMO there is an issue with TIE which needs attention:

- lots of vanilla city dwelling people(and maybe TIE added people too) seem to belong to the Thieves Guild. They try to pickpocket inside and outside city walls.
This leads to great battles when they are discovered and can′t bribe the guards. Settlements get depopulated.

An example:

- myself, Vilja and Rabies the Dire Wolf entered Skingrad one evening. We saw guards running and followed. At the church a battle developed leaving
Dion, Franck, A Canne, R Broder and 2 guards dead. I admit Vilja couldn`t resist joining, Nord as she is... The battle started because of failed pickpocket attempt.

I don`t want ghost cities, neither do I want mortal NPC:s to respawn. Dead is dead, once and for all. So I propose a solution, admittedly not knowing anything abt. modding:

- killed guard officers get replaced by promoted guardsmen or newly hired outsiders. New privates and NCO:s are hired to replace losses if they do not respawn automatically.

- killed house owners are replaced by relatives after some time has passed. See it as they resettle because of inheritance. These relatives need not be thieves and may or may not take up the occupation of the deceased.

- killed homeless are replaced after a while by new spawns. See it as an career opening for a prospective beggar.

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:33 am

alright, so i made a new game, spent ages doing the chargen, got to the last door where it asks me if i want to leave the sewers and then the game CTD's everytime (about 7 times so far) i believe this is TIE, i haven't installed any mods i haven't been using before or anything, not added anything, not removed anything, except TIE. also there's nothing in the warnings text.

whats going on guys? is something on my load list incompatible?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:40 am

alright, so i made a new game, spent ages doing the chargen, got to the last door where it asks me if i want to leave the sewers and then the game CTD's everytime (about 7 times so far) i believe this is TIE, i haven't installed any mods i haven't been using before or anything, not added anything, not removed anything, except TIE. also there's nothing in the warnings text.

whats going on guys? is something on my load list incompatible?

How could anyone answer that without seeing your load order?

Doubtful it is mod conflict unless you are not using BOSS or something. Maybe try regenerating your ini. http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=know_how_to#RegenerateTheOblivion.ini

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:29 pm

Hi all,

IMO there is an issue with TIE which needs attention:

- lots of vanilla city dwelling people(and maybe TIE added people too) seem to belong to the Thieves Guild. They try to pickpocket inside and outside city walls.
This leads to great battles when they are discovered and can′t bribe the guards. Settlements get depopulated.

An example:

- myself, Vilja and Rabies the Dire Wolf entered Skingrad one evening. We saw guards running and followed. At the church a battle developed leaving
Dion, Franck, A Canne, R Broder and 2 guards dead. I admit Vilja couldn`t resist joining, Nord as she is... The battle started because of failed pickpocket attempt.

I don`t want ghost cities, neither do I want mortal NPC:s to respawn. Dead is dead, once and for all. So I propose a solution, admittedly not knowing anything abt. modding:

- killed guard officers get replaced by promoted guardsmen or newly hired outsiders. New privates and NCO:s are hired to replace losses if they do not respawn automatically.

- killed house owners are replaced by relatives after some time has passed. See it as they resettle because of inheritance. These relatives need not be thieves and may or may not take up the occupation of the deceased.

- killed homeless are replaced after a while by new spawns. See it as an career opening for a prospective beggar.

Regards, Haldir

NPCs stealing food is supposed to be a normal game mechanic if they can't get it themselves in their AI wanderings.
VS said some time ago that NPCs pp'ing under TIE mechanics would only occur outside cities.
Battles inside cities can erupt for different reasons. If you use other mods that can cause more fighting like Extended (insert city here) that adds NPCs there will be alot more NPCs crowded together, thus more chance of more getting hit when one does something bad. A faction riot can then ensue.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:25 pm

NPCs stealing food is supposed to be a normal game mechanic if they can't get it themselves in their AI wanderings.
VS said some time ago that NPCs pp'ing under TIE mechanics would only occur outside cities.
Battles inside cities can erupt for different reasons. If you use other mods that can cause more fighting like Extended (insert city here) that adds NPCs there will be alot more NPCs crowded together, thus more chance of more getting hit when one does something bad. A faction riot can then ensue.

Hi,

I`m aware of what VS said. It doesn`t seem to work though. I do not use other mods that increase fighting and even if I can`t say what the thieves attempted to steal though watching the attempt itself the point abt. depopulation remains valid irrespectively of what is being stolen.

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:31 am

Get Reneer's Guard Overhaul. Instead of mibdlessly attacking them guards will actually arrest lawbreaking NPCs.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:32 pm

Well I have never experienced depopulation.
I have experienced mass riots with certain mods active, possibly interacting with each other to trigger them.

REQUEST:

I would like to see the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7471 properly merged into TIE. After all, TIE is all about immersion, lore, etc. Someone said that it is already part of one of the other overhauls...?

.....

I just realized while rebuilding my LO, including Sutch and having TIE+Frans, that it probably would be a good idea to use the patch http://tesnexus.com/downloads/download.php?id=49868 for removing spawn points inside Sutch that are placed by Francesco's leveled creatures items 4.5b.

You might want to link to that Arthmoor on the TIE page.

Readme:

Spoiler

I made this patch because Martigen's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life, together with Vanilla Oblivion and/or Francesco's More Wilderness Life made it almost impossible to enjoy the city of Sutch. Beasts spawning in the middle of city were killing the population of Sutch and the mood.

The patch removes some of the spawning points from the region that were added by vanilla Oblivion, Fran's and/or Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life, making the life in city of Sutch peaceful.

Requirements:
- Oblivion with the official patch version 1.2.406 (http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/updates_patches.htm)
- Timeslip's Oblivion Mod Manager (http://timeslip.chorrol.com/obmm_download.html)
- (optional) Francesco's levelled creatures items 4.5b (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2518)
- (optional) Martigen's Monster Mod 3.7 Beta1 (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=4226)
- (DC) The Imperial City of Sutch Reborn (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16815) (not actually required, but it wouldn't make much sense not to have it)

Installation:
You will need OBMM (because it makes life simpler).
Just activate the OMOD. Deactivate the previous version and delete the old OMOD.

In essence there are 3 patches. One for Fran's MWL, one for Mart's MWL and one for vanilla Oblivion. In reality there are 9 differently merged patches for every scenario, so, in its essence, this is a spawning-points-compatibility patch compilation for Sutch Reborn.
OMOD script automatically detects Fran's and Mart's mods (all variants) and installs the patch accordingly.

Your load order should be:

- (If avail) Francesco's More Wilderness Life.esp (or Francesco's Optional Files.esp)
- (If avail) Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp (or Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp)
- Sutch Reborn Spawn Patch.esp

The Fran's MWL must be loaded BEFORE Mart's MWL (if both are installed).
If one of the above is present, but not active, you will have to remove/rename it. Otherwise, the wrong patch will be installed.

The patches do not depend on (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:09 am

Get Reneer's Guard Overhaul. Instead of mibdlessly attacking them guards will actually arrest lawbreaking NPCs.

Hi,

I`ve got this mod.

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:49 am

I would like to see the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7471 properly merged into TIE. After all, TIE is all about immersion, lore, etc. Someone said that it is already part of one of the other overhauls...?

A simple patch to match TIE's levels would be cool. Definitely no merging of the two mods though . TIE must remain TIE.

Incidentally, is Realistic Levelling compatible with TIE?