The best part I think, is how they pushed the patch to PS3 a day or so before pushing it to the other platforms, received feedback on these forums about the patch breaking things before hand, and then pushed it out to the other platforms anyways.

If we paid in good faith, expecting to get a finished product, then how can you say it removes our right to complain about bugs that *should not have been allowed to pass?*

Look, I love Bethesda, too. I have a huge selection of games I've bought from them. The are a quality outfit. Why do you think that I'm most of my posts have negative tones? Because I like to complain? You don't know me that well to make that kind of statement. The *fact* is that, while I am absolutely positive that the vast majority of the games bugs were worked out beforehand, another two weeks would have probably made this forum a much sweeter place to hang out in.

And I would like to add that, while *some* of Bethesda's games have had a rocky start, they have done a pretty bloody good job of fixing them up again, IMHO. I'm not complaing about just Bethesda. My complaints just happen to be coming out here. They are aimed at *any* company that releases software that has not gone through a serious amount of QA before being released.

It's not their responsibility to do anything. They're not "obligated" to fix anything. Their "responsibility" was to create a game that people would buy, and they succeeded. Maybe if the game had an online fee, or if it had a monthly subscription cost would Bethesda have a "responsibility" to fix the game. The point is, Bethesda is fixing it now, and instead of people appreciating it, they decide to rail on Bethesda on the same exact day the patch is released. It's been less than twenty-four hours, and people are acting like Bethesda has done nothing to try and fix their game.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who seem to feel that we are doing software companies a favor by purchasing their products. Like someone suggesting we should simply be grateful they are working on bug patches "for free" (lol?)

I would hardly frame my single thread requesting some official comment as complaining "about it to no end". I understand the general consensus is that the forum is absolutely filled with these types of threads, but I suppose that statement speaks to the seriousness of the issue, I don't have any control of what threads other users choose to create.

Let's take a moment to look at a truly ridiculous statement, one frequently made in many forums. "Game is great - forum is full of complaints because people who enjoy game are actually playing, not on forums." This statement has been made of course on the forums of every game which has suffered from any problems. It begs the question however - how do you explain the type of people who are, ironically, actually making that claim? They are apparently people who enjoy the game, and there they are making a post. So... by their own participation they are in fact disproving their claim - users who "support" the game ARE in fact posting on the forums... now there is an example of people looking dumb :thumbsup:

bethesda: -silence-...-crickets chirping- :teehee:

My system isn't crappy and outdated and it runs the game just fine.

The only issue I had was Steam being a *&^*^%$^%$# to install.

No

Only 9,999,999 sweetrolls...

Someone stole one of the sweetrolls.

The simple truth is that we expect a lot from them. They ave been in the industry a long time and have set the bar pretty high.

I think a lot of "complainers" are actually just disappointed fans. I don't understand the generalization of complainers equals haters.

I agree and disagree. Surprisingly (from what I've been reading so far), I had far fewer issues with Oblivion than I did with Skyrim. Maybe that is part of the reason that I feel so adversely affected by this game's performance. I was expecting a better product this time. And, for the most part, it is. The graphics are great. The ambience is, too. The main quest was well thought out and scripted. But most of the flaws I've found were so obvious to me, I can't see how they could have been ignored like this.

So far of what I'm seen pass for "feedback" has struck me as being little more than angry mashing of keyboards supplemented by suppressed squealing noises of rage.

Immaturity and entitlement seem to go hand in hand, and make for a combination that can be both entertaining and outright embarassing.

I haven't seen anyone truly be reasonable about any of this, of the ones complaining about the patch apparently making the game unplayable for "everyone." All I've seen is argumentative attitudes backed with petulance, and any discussion being hijacked by the complainers taking any statement from someone not screaming "MEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" either out of context or else extrapolating far more than the other person even said, in a further projection of their internet rage.

All I've seen is an excessive sense of self-entitlement, as though Bethesda is meant to be at the mercy and command of someone with a complaint.

I like the auto anology someone used. I'll remember that the next time my car needs servicing, and I'll just send the bill to Chevrolet. Hey, they made my car, they should pay the mechanic.

This is a pretty common thing in the game industry. There's no need to make a statement.

Personally, I think it's insulting that community members here don't understand that by now. Especially if you've ever played a Bethesda game before.

I believe you have nailed it, sir. That is exactly how I feel.

I've played the game on PS3 for over 100 hours, and the only bug I experienced was the lag bug. Patch 1.2 fixed it, so I'm stoked. At this point, I think it's unfair to say that the same bugs are affecting every person playing the game (except for the resistance bug that came in 1.2.)

:lol: Well played sir!

So that's who took my sweetroll. Can somebody please tell the guards?

Bethesda makes buggy games..I got over that fact with Morrowind GOTY way back when...

Do i enjoy,agree,or accept it.No.

Well i lied i do accept it because everytime they try to fix one minor bug or glitch they introduce a major one.Better the little devil you do know then the massive one you don't.

I am afraid to tell you, but the Lag bug was not fixed....it lets you play for a bit more with out any lag, then it returns rendering the game unplayable again.

I was responding directly to a post that said Bethesda has a history of not fixing bugs. So people buy buggy stuff apparently and know this beforehand but still continue to buy it anyways. And then come here and complain about it, even though they already knew Bethesda has this "history". I own plenty of Bethesda games, I know what they're about. I anticipated Skyrim greatly, preordered, got it out of the box. What I got *SHOCK* was exactly what I expected to get. It is a finished product, the bugs that are there were completely forseeable to anyone who has any experience playing Bethesda games or these types of games in general. To argue differently shows you are a newbie gamer or just not a rational person and condradicts all logic and prior comments about other Bethesda games. If anyone here was a newbie gamer I wouldnt hold them to the same standard, they probably didnt know what they were getting into at all. Thats a different story so yes, logically they would have a right to complain about it.

On the contrary, the mass bulk of the complaints are not coming from newbs, we all know that. And if your problem is bugs, YOU are the problem. Because you continue to buy software that has a "history" of being buggy. What a joke guys, honestly. If you dont want buggy stuff, vote with your wallet, dont pay for it then come here and whinge afterwards. WIth your complaints you arent helping at all to fix anything, you're perpetuating it, because they already got your money. So in the vast majority of instances, the whiners have themselves to blame. The people who are happy with the game were right to buy it, we are happy with what we got and are willing to pay for it again. But the effect of what you do is exactly the same, you paid for it but are not happy with what you got, even though we all knew already what we were getting. Its really entirely too late in the game now, you may as well join our side or start with the next Bethesda release and NOT BUY IT.

I know Im probably making entirely too much sense, and this wont help a thing. I guess Im just bored.

Rather than start my own thread, I'll use this one to explain my case.

I want to start by saying that I absolutely love the game when it's actually working. It's my favorite game in years. That being said, I have had a lot of problems with this game. In fact, I can't remember ever having this much of a hassle with a console game.

I initially purchased the game on my PS3 because I just generally use the PS3 more often. I fell in love with the game and played for close to 30 hours with my first character before the infamous lag issues took over my experience. I couldn't play it anymore after a while and I was extremely disappointed. I decided that I wouldn't pin my hopes on a patch. I was able to return the PS3 copy on a technicality and acquire a 360 copy. I had to dust off my Xbox in order to play it (haven't really used that thing in a while). I was shocked to find that the graphics actually looked noticeably better on the 360. I started a new game with a new character and put in over 40 hours without a single issue.

Enter 1.2. Ever since I downloaded the patch, I am experiencing floating objects in the game world, jerky animations, loss of ability to interact with NPCs and a loss of texture detail that makes the game look hideous. In one day, I went from loving the game to finding it completely unplayable. I'm not exagerating either. I can't play it. I reached this point with the PS3 version due to the crippling lag and now I have reached it with the 360 version too. What makes it so frustrating is that the damn thing was working just fine until they "patched" it.

I'm not going to say much more because I know that a lot of gamers are having issues with this game and I also know that the people at Bethesda are working hard to try to fix things. I guess I'll just end with a bit of advice that Bethesda will likely not pay any attention to. You guys make amazing games. In terms of the gameplay and content; Skyrim is just fantastic and I am definitely a fan of your work.

With that said, I really think that you should consider overhauling your process of taking a game from development and putting it into circulation. It seems that all of your games enter the marketplace before they are complete. As such, players find themselves trying to navigate their way through a minefield of bugs. From a gamers' perspective; it's a real downer when you're playing a game and you're really into it and then, all of a sudden, a bug prevents you from progressing any further. I can speak for many gamers when I say that I would rather the game come out a few months later (minus the terminal issues) than deal with this much frustration just so I can get the game in time for the holidays or whatever.

Yes because being on a forum built for the discussion of something that you really enjoy doing is by default dumb. Whereas being on a forum with something you really cant stand and posting about how much it svcks makes you an intelligent person. Yeah, you really trumped me with your superior logic bro. You make a good point.

What this person said.

And those same problems are cross platform.

Going to be Blunt here. This is skyrim, not da2.

the game is denying me access to content I have fought, bought and literally paid for with real life money, after I unlocked it. That is game-breaking. claiming it isn't. is ridiculous.

I guess the good news is that you are still within the 30 days return window. If it really is that bad, you have until the 10th to return it!

That only works with consoles.

This