All valid points I'll admit. However, the gaming industry itself creates the mania to purchase software on day one, or even pre-purchase. To both maximize full price sales, and to turn folks away from the piracy alternative. I'd suggest then that they have an obligation to deliver a product that's quite polished on day one. This example of just dumping it out to consumers and attempting to patch it up as they go really is not helping their bottom line. I don't think waiting for this game to get better "as the years go by" is acceptable to most consumers. I waited patiently, as the weeks went by, for these things to get sorted out but now it's just getting worse. When I launch Steam the first thing I see is the "recent news" stating that the game's a mess. There's a real problem when the delivery service for your product is culling negative comments and news stories from the web.

Haha. In all seriousness though, if you own a car you know that this is exactly what happens every time you get some mechanic to fix it. I don't think I've ever had a repair done where I wasn't back to the shop for something else three days later.

That said, patching software is very tricky. As I've said before, there's no indication that the patch did more harm than good. Yes it did harm, that is known. On the forums, we see the people that come here with problems, especially if the problems are new. What we usually don't see are the people that have no problems, or whose problems go away. Some of them post their "yay" thread, but most of them just don't bother to come back if they don't need anything any more.

Even with the problems in this patch, I expect that it fixed quite a bit more than it broke. I mentioned already that Steam is a very easy platform to roll-back a patch with. If Beth really thought the patch should be recalled, then they easily could do it with almost no trouble on their part. The fact that they haven't is, by itself, a hint that the patch did more good than harm.

Now there is a lot of complaint about Steam and that you don't have any real choice but to patch your game. That's a problem, and I've never liked that about Steam. I almost wonder if their "don't update this game" feature is fraudulent, considering how consistently it never works. But that's a problem with Steam really, and not Bethesda. Other than the fact that Bethesda choose to use Steam, there's nothing they can do about that now.

You gotta be kidding me... That thing is HUGE!! ncredible. Sad, that only a microscopic little part of it will ever be fixed by Beth... :cryvaultboy: :sadvaultboy:

Hi guys,

This is my first post here and yes, 1.2 patch brought me here.
After the update, I couldn't load Skyrim. Before, I was enjoying every minute on it although I still experienced some bugs occasionally but it's still playable!

Hopefully they get this fixed soon!
To some here, probably we are still considered the minority; the ones complaining and whining about downs of v1.2.
Just liked to reiterate this point, if it weren't for v1.2, I wouldn't be wasting my time here ranting. I would be spending my precious time playing this awesome and addicting game.

But, it's really bugged now..

No amount of marketing or devious little tricks can equal the power of......




Hint: The other side of supply

actually most people do just take them in and say "its broke" thats what diagnostics are for..., and people need to stop sticking up for game companies releasing unfinished games, do they even play these games before they release them? How do all of these issues go unseen in a game thats been in development for so long....and why the [censored] do the horses still svck? this game is a disappointment, it should have been so much better, and i knew it would be mediocre when i found out the size of the game.....

@Varus I know what you mean. But I reckon the jury is out though, most of the patch notes were "rare" this and "occasional" that, fixing those at the expense of everyone else's games hitting issues...tough call if it is a net good. The amount of PC users rolling back/trying to roll back says a lot though.

I'm not even annoyed, but I can understand why people are and the lack of communication is perplexing - just because it's how they are it doesnt make it less perplexing or frustrating.



In my "1.1 using" opinion, people have the right to be cross and have a reasonable expectation as consumers to have some feedback somewhere. Do the company deserve to be cut some slack? Maybe, I'd say yes had they made mention of it yet, but until now they have not.

There's also the matter of people complaining about bugs (there are over 500 documented so far) only to be jumped on from a great height by a group of people who insist these issues are in their mind/non existent or they are simply 'doing it wrong'. That's simply foolish, but it'll be frustrating for the people having issues.

Stop complaining deal with it.

Oh god, the Gamefaqs joke has made its way here.


Hopefully it takes an arrow in the knee before it arrives.

People keep bringing up that 500 number as if its a damning figure. I would bet 90% of the bugs in that thread are trivial and have no distinguishable impact on game play.

Do the problems with 1.2 effect all computers? even those who still have vanilla pc versions of skyrim, no mods etc ? Steam downloaded it automatically today, I didn't even know there was a patch, I never read the forums and if I had I would have turned steam offline until a fix had been found.

Apparently there is part of a mod which deals with what is to me the worst bit of this,the magic resistances, but Iam no computer expert and knowing me if I mess with the files I will make it worse and besides, surely a community shouldn't have to fix a game breaking problem? Surely before they put this out on release they should have tested it until they were certain any hiccups would be minor,and surely they should have realised the issue with steam automatically updating and the problems that could create if the patch makes things worse?

I had zero issues before,and now Iam wondering if I should stop and play something else. Is steam still patching? and if the patch is so bad why hasn't bethesda told them to stop? Or is it a case of a vocal minority having problems ?

Yes - and EA makes you pay for online gaming. They are a great model for the rest of the industry (BARF!)

The bug is hardcoded in the exe. The SKSE (Skyrim Script Extender) fixes it but not the dragon flying backwards. That seems to be an script bug which the SKSE does not fix and can probably be only done with CK or by beth.

There are over 100 side quest issues and a dozen main quest issues.

However, I don't know why I'm bothering to reply as it seems these guys could run over your dog, take a leak on your kids at christmas and the retort would likely be "Why thank you sirs, may I have another"



@ joedjoejoe: You're mixing them up with activision I think

I knew Skyrim would have bugs, so acting surprised, annoyed, angry or disappointed seems disingenuous at best, although I have had nary the issue. . That should tell you of what esteem I hold most of the people making these threads and complaining about issues that they knew would occur.

But, did you expect that patches would make things worse? I always thought that patches were designed to FIX things, not break them worse than they were.... which is what we are seeing here. If you want to settle for a game that was partially broken, only to be broken even more by a "fix", I guess that's your choice, and beth probably loves folks like you. "Hey, LOOKIE! We can poke him up the keester, and he things it's FINE!" They probably have wet-dreams of customers like that.

As for the automotive anology, if you take your car into the shop to get something fixed, only to have to return a few days later, you need to either 1. Find a new repair shop. Or 2. Buy a different car. As a rule, when I worked the counter in the service department at a dealership, the people that came in, were nice, polite, described the problem in as much detail as they could, including circumstances that were likely to cause the problem to present itself... they were the ones that actually got their car fixed right the first time. The folks that came in, threw the keys on the counter, hollered "Its BROKE, FIX IT!", and left...... would be the last vehicles to make it to a tech, and the tech would find some little detail to fix, and then park it back outside. When the customer came back, and his issue HADN'T been fixed...... I would just point at the repair order, and ask him: "Do you see anywhere on here where you told us just which issue it was you wanted fixed?" It would piss the customer right off, yeah, but then, I would actually be able to get some details from them, so that the tech COULD fix the REAL problem.

I think you are confusing the difference between someone doing something terrible to you, and someone failing to do something wonderful for you. Running over someone's dog is a terrible thing to do, and it's done with no reason.

Giving you a video game that doesn't work properly compares in no way to that. The video game is a toy, something for you to enjoy, it's a luxury. Not having it work properly for a little while is nothing even close to an injustice. This is the most common weakness in some of the complaints on this board, people tend to view Skyrim as something to which they are entitled.

For one thing, it's a luxury. Yes, you paid for it, but if you used your life savings on Skyrim you are either a little kid, or an idiot. Skyrim is something you buy with extra money, not with your grocery money. It's a toy, a luxury, not something you are going to need at any point in your life.

Secondly, you don't really have any rights in it to begin with. I'm not saying I agree with this, because I don't. I'm saying it's true. If you read the EULA and you read the copyright cases and the laws associated with this stuff, you'd see that video games are licensed, not sold. You don't own it. You don't own the box, the manual, the cd, the game, nothing. No law anywhere (in the USA) supports this idea that you have some vested right in the game. You never have, not even Morrowind. Look at my signature. It's a travesty, but it's true.

So while I understand a lot of people complaining about things that go wrong, I cannot understand at all why they take this so seriously. It's a game. A toy. When a toy breaks it's not the end of the world, it's just a toy. It's for fun, casual, spare time.

If fewer people would get so bent out of shape over this, and quit acting like Bethesda just insulted their grandmother, these boards would be a lot more peaceful.

You missed my other post I think, the one you replied to was in retort to a thpecial kind of user




edit: Pretty sure its been held up in court that EULAs cannot take away existing right rights not matter what they try to do.

Ah, so, because it is a 'luxury', we can't expect to get a luxury that WORKS for our money? Ok. Thank you for that bit of wisdom.

They are putting an update tOgether as you are arguing

http://xkcd.com/285/

Of course you can expect it to work! Good grief. Please read what I wrote in context to what I was responding to, as well as some of the other things I've said if you get a chance. You should expect it to work.

But if it doesn't, it's not a personal insult to your family. It's not a tragedy of society that represents the unraveling of all moral fabric. It's not serious at all. Some people here get so wound up and pissed off that their toy is broken, it reminds me of Kindergarteners. And yes, I've taught kindergarten.

Sure, ask for a fix. Wait for a fix. Expect a fix, even. But don't get so huffed up and angry about it. Be polite, be professional, and be helpful and everyone will get a better product, sooner.

It isn't? It's not? Are you sure??? :rofl:

Ok, point taken. To THAT, I can agree.

There do seem to be an alarming volume of posters, however, who take game criticism as such

You bought the game knowing full well gamesas issue with buggy games. You could not be patient and wait for them to flesh out the bugs before you bought the game and now mad that gamesas lived up to it's reputation for launching buggy games.