[Wayne W]

wut? o.0

Basically, he's saying Asapp's metaphors, much like yours, are about as clear as a guy who yells at fish because he's mad about the government.

[DAVId Bryant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

;

[Brandi Norton]

Basically, he's saying Asapp's metaphors, much like yours, are about as clear as a guy who yells at fish because he's mad about the government.

I understood his metaphor pretty well...

[Annika Marziniak]

Haha. Linkage for the win. Hey, regardless of the content, politics and other stuff which I can snore about, I might return for the kicks. If the story is good enough. Though it depends on the timeline I guess. I plan on adding Shavaash again(No-Lycanthropy. Cured. And no Tarzan-speech.) and a regular sixist/horny Bosmer.

For some reason I have that exotic feel. Maybe Morrowind or something along those lines. Though my lore understanding of Morrowind is limited. But it would be good to have the warrior/wanderer tavern going, debaucherous feel while getting in trouble with politics.

[Bee Baby]

Ahhh, I see you attend the "Woolymammoth Institute for the Creation of Impossibly Obscure anologies". How was your first lesson?

Ok, maybe something a little bit clearer.

If a guy has a hand full of pebbles in one hand, and a sword in the other. Would you throw your hands up in defense and scream "NO NOT THE PEBBLES"

Yeah after a while being pelted with pebbles will hurt, but I would rather prepare for when he comes at me with that sword than sit there and whine about how my shirt is too thin and the pebbles will leave bruises.

What I'm saying is why make such a big deal about something that isn't even that important.

I'm against doing a Taneth RP just because none of us can agree on anything with it and arguing about it is just going to push people away from the timeline, something we don't need happening. Taneth is going to the Yokudans no matter what, they already have people on the inside, there's a force of 6200 professional soldiers (Including 200 veteran battlemages) ready to take their docks on a moments notice, and the whole city will be surrounded. Even if they don't breach the walls, which they probably will, the Yokudans can still starve out the city in a matter of a month or two. Taneth is going down no matter what, and it'll probably be a quick affair. The army will be weak yes, but they will still greatly outnumber the knights after Taneth. Rihad has been under siege and with a combined naval and ground assault (there's also Yokudan forces inside Rihad) Rihad will fall as well.

Like it or not the confederation doesn't stand a chance, especially if they don't have the Knights backing them, and if they Knights have anything inside their heads that resembles a brain then they wont stick around and get slaughtered in a war that isn't theirs.

That's just my opinion. I'm tired of all the bickering over Taneth.

[Tinkerbells]

Ok, maybe something a little bit clearer.

If a guy has a hand full of pebbles in one hand, and a sword in the other. Would you throw your hands up in defense and scream "NO NOT THE PEBBLES"

Yeah after a while being pelted with pebbles will hurt, but I would rather prepare for when he comes at me with that sword than sit there and whine about how my shirt is too thin and the pebbles will leave bruises.

Haha, you guys take me far to seriously. Well played.

[Naazhe Perezz]

There are ways to get supplies in. It wouldn't fall to starvation.

[Laura Samson]

There are ways to get supplies in. It wouldn't fall to starvation.

How?

[SexyPimpAss]

My opinion on the cannons, for what little it's worth in a military-themed discussion, is that Sentinel would hardly have ended up with mobile horse artillery or whatever after centuries spent using land artillery as a static defense. Would they want lighter, more mobile pieces for field battles involving cannons about which I, at least, haven't heard anything, or would they want things that can shoot as far as possible, with as heavy a ball as possible to wreck any potential besiegers' siege equipment before they can bring Sentinel's wall down?

I agree with Squid; if it has to be Taneth and it has to be based on whatever from history, roll out the 1453s. Redguards with Napoleonic artillery assaulting a star-fort leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me feel like we've strayed too far from the spirit of TES maybe.

Also, wooly, I heard you like teleporting so we put a teleporter in your siege so you can teleport while you siege.

[Rachael Williams]

It sounds to me like you're saying "This is why this shouldn't be...x y z...but it's OKAY i guess..." Well the truth is there are plenty of anachronistic things on both sides, Napoleonic artillery being one of them. Simply counting from the cannon's conception in Tamriel's war, several hundred years and just saying "ok by now they get these sort of cannons" isn't necessarily what would happen either. There's also the issue of the number of cannons. 450 cannons is the number a 19th century army would have when wars were fought with armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands. So i mean we can point things out too if it comes to that. There are plenty technological achronisms to go around that we ourselves have brought in let alone what TES military lore is in general.

Next, do you realize what 450 19th century cannons would do to a typical regular straight wall? I think having a unique design for Taneth in order to even make the siege balanced is kind of required. But maybe I could be wrong? If everyone wants regular ol cannon [censored] victim walls we can go with that too if it's everyone's meow.

Anyway it's nice people are still passioned by this plot and I hope we go through with it. Better to discuss ideas now than mid RP.

Nailed it IB, that is exactly what I'm saying. <----- and by that I mean that I don't really care as long as we all have a good time RPing. It you guys have an issue, I'll change it if its reasonable, it won't make a difference to the overall plan.

I don't know how many times I have to present the reasoning, but from the time we see gunpowder in TES (exploding barrels in Redguard unless I'm mistaken) to the time of SoS actually excedes the time frame from the development of the most primitive cannons to the napoleonic era cannons in our timeline. The timeframe fits, and Sentinels use of them in naval warfare gives them ample reason to want to upgrade and develope newer forms of the weapon, especially since the running joke was that the cannons were so heavy that they sunk Sentinels ships. This gives them reason to develop smaller, lighter cannons even. Its not neccisarily how it could happen, but I can put ample reason behind the development supplemented with real life rate of advancement and reason within Sentinel's history to easily justify them. However, the advent of the Star Fort, again, is the direct result of the increased use of cannons in sieges and is designed to counteract that of the cannon ball.

The number of cannons are within the entire Yokudan Army, not deployed in the field. There weren't even close to that many at the Irk River and you guys continue to focus on the cannons when both story and I have constantly said CANNONS WILL NOT BE A FOCAL POINT. Next, no one insisted on bringing in these Napoleonic era cannons, they were listed and described in Story's army sheet, no one insisted, but none of you brought up an issue with it until it was brought in against your own forces. I'm fine with dumbing down the cannons if you guys feel like its too advantageous to us, as I've said multiple times and shown, Im more than willing to make concessions for the fairness of the RP, but it would be great if these things were brought up before the fighting starts instead of after.

I think the point is that, like Wooly said, war isn't fair. I'm well aware of what cannons would do to a flat wall, and thats the point. Realistically speaking, there wouldn't be advancements in wall defences until something was posed to force such rapid change. Even with ancient cannons flat walls were almost useless with the exception of Constantinople who's wall were the highest and thickest in Europe, and lets not forget they had a double wall on top of that. So since everyone thinks that were just gonna knock your walls down, we can turn cannons down to bombards if you want. Perfectly fine, I'll be sure to do some research on the era cannon and adapt the armorments to fit.

For the final and last freakin a time YOU GUYS ARE BLOWING THE CANNONS OUT OF PROPORTION AND MAKING A BIG DEAL OVER NOTHING.

EDIT: We've been extremely reasonable in adapting to your issues with our forces, and I've been a constant nagging voice about keeping things realistic and plausible for our side. I don't see where this idea comes from that we expect you to simply roll over because were all uber and stuff.

[Amanda Leis]

Edit: nevermind. See next post.

[Lauren Graves]

EDIT: We've been extremely reasonable in adapting to your issues with our forces, and I've been a constant nagging voice about keeping things realistic and plausible for our side. I don't see where this idea comes from that we expect you to simply roll over because were all uber and stuff.

I'll show you where I'm getting it.

My own overblown ego and idea of myself as a great armchair general simply refuses to allow me to capitulate to such thing. Story and I have been planning complete and total Yokudan victory over Hammerfell for years now, and I've been developing the siege for quite awhile as well. While no plan is full proof, I'm too confidant in our eventual victory to settle for anything less. Perhapse I could compile a mock run of the siege itself, since it doesn't look like we're going to inact it, to show you just what I mean and you could offer up counters to our 'would be' advance.

Not by phyrric victory, not by the Knights deciding to leave because their higher-ups say so (leaving it ambiguous on whether or not things would have happened the way they did), but by the Yokudan Empire steamrolling over everything while the other side can't put up much of a fight. Story's proposed summation of how things work out isn't much better, what with the Yokudans living happily ever after after having butchered thousands of innocents, ignoring the inconsequential internal troubles and diplomatic setbacks (and to top it all off, Anvil abducts political refugees and takes them back to Hammerfell to be executed). It's basically a punch in the stomach to those that didn't want to see the poor innocent Confederation ground into pulp. It makes it feel like everything the Knights and Confederation have done will amount to nothing.

Edit: I understand you've been patient and you have helped to make things slightly more balanced. This RP would have been a lot more skewed if you hadn't helped. I'm not upset about imbalance, I'm upset about the revelation that nothing short of a total, flawless Yokudan victory will be accepted.

[Sudah mati ini Keparat]

Geez, you svckas arguing about canons now? What's next? What type of wood is plausible to make up a Yokudan ship or how many nose hairs a Knight needs to have so he can be able to detect danger? Seriously...next thing you will do is try to see how much food a horse ate so you can count the amount of dung that fell from his [censored] because we can't have a constipated horse go in battle, can we?

Sheesh. Just pick a damn thing and set sail with this [censored] already. I think I am fooling myself everytime I come here to see if there is anything worth looking into, but everytime I see an argument and bickering. Seems you people have a knack for that stuff.

[Kat Stewart]

Geez, you svckas arguing about canons now? What's next? What type of wood is plausible to make up a Yokudan ship or how many nose hairs a Knight needs to have so he can be able to detect danger? Seriously...next thing you will do is try to see how much food a horse ate so you can count the amount of dung that fell from his [censored] because we can't have a constipated horse go in battle, can we?

Sheesh. Just pick a damn thing and set sail with this [censored] already.

The 19th century cannons are but a symptom of larger underlying problems in the RP.

[Lady Shocka]

The 19th century cannons are but a symptom of larger underlying problems in the RP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maVTPKgzEj8&t=0m5s

If I could just reach out to you, Crimson. If only.

[STEVI INQUE]

I'm serious W&V (I can't tell if you're mocking me or not. Regardless I feel you deserve a full explanation). This RP has its own freaking metagame. Everyone hides things from everyone else knowing that the other side would magically learn of it shows the level of how screwed up it is. I am no exception to the rule because I wish to see the Knights and Confederation would at least put up a decent fight and for their actions to actually amount to something rather than being a mere speedbump before being ground into itty bitty pieces. There was an entire argument earlier on that started because I had previously misspoken to Wooly over Meebo regarding a plan IB had. And let's not get into the meta arms race that both sides have pushed, myself included.

I feel this has gone beyond decent RPing, when you have to hide what you have planned because either what you have planned is nasty and mean-spirited, or even when it isn't it clashes against ridiculous end goals set by the other side. At least by BSGF RP Forum standards.

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

My opinion on the cannons, for what little it's worth in a military-themed discussion, is that Sentinel would hardly have ended up with mobile horse artillery or whatever after centuries spent using land artillery as a static defense. Would they want lighter, more mobile pieces for field battles involving cannons about which I, at least, haven't heard anything, or would they want things that can shoot as far as possible, with as heavy a ball as possible to wreck any potential besiegers' siege equipment before they can bring Sentinel's wall down?

I agree with Squid; if it has to be Taneth and it has to be based on whatever from history, roll out the 1453s. Redguards with Napoleonic artillery assaulting a star-fort leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me feel like we've strayed too far from the spirit of TES maybe.

Also, wooly, I heard you like teleporting so we put a teleporter in your siege so you can teleport while you siege.

Completely agree.

Nailed it IB, that is exactly what I'm saying. <----- and by that I mean that I don't really care as long as we all have a good time RPing. It you guys have an issue, I'll change it if its reasonable, it won't make a difference to the overall plan.

I don't know how many times I have to present the reasoning, but from the time we see gunpowder in TES (exploding barrels in Redguard unless I'm mistaken) to the time of SoS actually excedes the time frame from the development of the most primitive cannons to the napoleonic era cannons in our timeline. The timeframe fits, and Sentinels use of them in naval warfare gives them ample reason to want to upgrade and develope newer forms of the weapon, especially since the running joke was that the cannons were so heavy that they sunk Sentinels ships. This gives them reason to develop smaller, lighter cannons even. Its not neccisarily how it could happen, but I can put ample reason behind the development supplemented with real life rate of advancement and reason within Sentinel's history to easily justify them. However, the advent of the Star Fort, again, is the direct result of the increased use of cannons in sieges and is designed to counteract that of the cannon ball.

The number of cannons are within the entire Yokudan Army, not deployed in the field. There weren't even close to that many at the Irk River and you guys continue to focus on the cannons when both story and I have constantly said CANNONS WILL NOT BE A FOCAL POINT. Next, no one insisted on bringing in these Napoleonic era cannons, they were listed and described in Story's army sheet, no one insisted, but none of you brought up an issue with it until it was brought in against your own forces. I'm fine with dumbing down the cannons if you guys feel like its too advantageous to us, as I've said multiple times and shown, Im more than willing to make concessions for the fairness of the RP, but it would be great if these things were brought up before the fighting starts instead of after.

I think the point is that, like Wooly said, war isn't fair. I'm well aware of what cannons would do to a flat wall, and thats the point. Realistically speaking, there wouldn't be advancements in wall defences until something was posed to force such rapid change. Even with ancient cannons flat walls were almost useless with the exception of Constantinople who's wall were the highest and thickest in Europe, and lets not forget they had a double wall on top of that. So since everyone thinks that were just gonna knock your walls down, we can turn cannons down to bombards if you want. Perfectly fine, I'll be sure to do some research on the era cannon and adapt the armorments to fit.

For the final and last freakin a time YOU GUYS ARE BLOWING THE CANNONS OUT OF PROPORTION AND MAKING A BIG DEAL OVER NOTHING.

EDIT: We've been extremely reasonable in adapting to your issues with our forces, and I've been a constant nagging voice about keeping things realistic and plausible for our side. I don't see where this idea comes from that we expect you to simply roll over because were all uber and stuff.

You are talking about frame of time, but that is completely irrelevant to us. And 19th century cannons weren't just "smaller and lighter." They were much more accurate and longer ranged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard_(weapon)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_12_Gribeauval

Compare. It personally doesn't bother me as much aside from feeling somewhat out of place. I mean i'm honestly thinking about putting the RP up now I just need to know what the points of disagreement were and what the answer will be.


@ Crimson, don't worry so much. We're suppose to not all know what each other is doing. It's rather more fun that way. Don't take it so seriously! No worries.

[Emma]

I'll show you where I'm getting it.


Not by phyrric victory, not by the Knights deciding to leave because their higher-ups say so (leaving it ambiguous on whether or not things would have happened the way they did), but by the Yokudan Empire steamrolling over everything while the other side can't put up much of a fight. Story's proposed summation of how things work out isn't much better, what with the Yokudans living happily ever after after having butchered thousands of innocents, ignoring the inconsequential internal troubles and diplomatic setbacks (and to top it all off, Anvil abducts political refugees and takes them back to Hammerfell to be executed). It's basically a punch in the stomach to those that didn't want to see the poor innocent Confederation ground into pulp. It makes it feel like everything the Knights and Confederation have done will amount to nothing.

Edit: I understand you've been patient and you have helped to make things slightly more balanced. This RP would have been a lot more skewed if you hadn't helped. I'm not upset about imbalance, I'm upset about the revelation that nothing short of a total, flawless Yokudan victory will be accepted.

This
This This
This

As long as the outcome is a totally foregone conclusion in just one persons mind, the RP can't function.

[Chad Holloway]

Alright, I'd like to make some points to everyone.

1) The cannons should probably be damn bombards. No, I was not aware they were 19th century cannons. They will be leveled down to bombards.

2) No, Taneth should not be a star fort because it's just weird. Doesn't fit for the logical reasons that IB and Tidus have agreed upon.

3) A "flawless" victory isn't expected. Yokudans will lose people too. At the end of the day, no matter how many people are lost, the Yokudans are a bigger nation with more people, more ammunition and technology. Like Asap said, the victory may be costly for Haroun but they will probably win. However, it won't be "flawless".

4) What the heck are you talking about with "concealing ppl's plans". Squid was notified of Roxanna's death. Once again, get your character out of there if you don't want him to be there.

5) Haroun trying to conquer Hammerfell has been something coming since 2008.

6) Tayroc, have you read the entire RP because you've come in late? Not to be disrespectful mate, but an opinion isn't much of an opinion if the opinion doesn't have factual basis.

7) Crimson, please stop acting like the knights are so weak and defenseless. Half of you thinking we've made the Yokudans invulnerable gigantic beasts is you thinking the knights are children who wear diapers. They are damn knights and have their own magical devices. Look up some history and you'll see that just because someone has some cannons, doesn't mean they'll always win. I mean, c'mon man. "Flawless" victory? The reason Tidus has said he wants to do this siege is that if the knights can fight back, then they should do so appropriately.

8) I've actually stopped arguing and me and IB have begun talking like friends again, and I'm sick of all the damn whining just like you guys were sick of it when I was doing it. I didn't exactly know the cannons were that advanced but that doesn't mean we should have star forts and be complaining about how magic is so meaningless and the knights have no chance. It's a RP. We're here to write, not to complain about cannons or sieges or magic or whatever.

They're bombards, there's no freaking star fort, now let's do the damn RP!

[Loane]

I actually agree with wooly. Yeah you read correctly.

Let's all stop getting excited over nothing and let me know if I can post this thing up say tomorrow night or so? I have two papers do next week so it would be nice to know what people are thinking.

[Anne marie]

I'm sorry I've been getting worked up. And I'm sorry for misinterpreting what Tidus was saying. I'm just afraid of somebody railroading the RP to fit their pre-determined outcome. But I should have known by now that Tidus would never stoop to that level. I'm sorry for assuming you'd do that, Tidus.

It's just that I'm also afraid of the story ending in a way that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, Haroun and Bomilkar no longer just want to conquer the Confederation, they want to burn it to the ground to avenge Roxanna and ensure nobody escapes. And I feel partially responsible because I've heard that Roxanna was killed off (thus turning the invasion into something far more horrific) because I had a character that tried to arrange peace between the two groups.

[Jason Wolf]

6) Tayroc, have you read the entire RP because you've come in late? Not to be disrespectful mate, but an opinion isn't much of an opinion if the opinion doesn't have factual basis.

This statement here is the reason we don't get new members lol.

I've been a timeline member since 2008 (2009?) and I've been following KSS fervently since October, and you're saying my opinion isn't valid because I wasn't here for the beginning.

That is the single most unintentionally-disrespectful statement I have ever read, dude. You're gifted lol. I'm not being snide, I just think its funny how you said it innocuously.

I am all for putting up the RP and getting started. I think it'll be something a la Kingdom of Heaven in scope of bloodshed. With all the strong rhetoric I've seen, I'm sure it'll be a battle for the history books.

[Tom Flanagan]

This statement here is the reason we don't get new members lol.

I've been a timeline member since 2008 (2009?) and I've been following KSS fervently since October, and you're saying my opinion isn't valid because I wasn't here for the beginning.

That is the single most unintentionally-disrespectful statement I have ever read, dude. You're gifted lol. I'm not being snide, I just think its funny how you said it innocuously.

I am all for putting up the RP and getting started. I think it'll be something a la Kingdom of Heaven in scope of bloodshed. With all the strong rhetoric I've seen, I'm sure it'll be a battle for the history books.

Mate, wasn't intended to be offensive. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about but I'm not sure how much you kept up with and how much you haven't. Apologies for any disrespect I put out; it wasn't intentional.

[Hannah Whitlock]

Mate, wasn't intended to be offensive. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about but I'm not sure how much you kept up with and how much you haven't. Apologies for any disrespect I put out; it wasn't intentional.

I know bro, that's why it's funny. I see where you're coming from but I think We all deserve a little voice in this discussion. At this point, we are beyond KSS and talking about the future.

[Britta Gronkowski]

I'm sorry I've been getting worked up. And I'm sorry for misinterpreting what Tidus was saying. I'm just afraid of somebody railroading the RP to fit their pre-determined outcome. But I should have known by now that Tidus would never stoop to that level. I'm sorry for assuming you'd do that, Tidus.

It's just that I'm also afraid of the story ending in a way that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, Haroun and Bomilkar no longer just want to conquer the Confederation, they want to burn it to the ground to avenge Roxanna and ensure nobody escapes. And I feel partially responsible because I've heard that Roxanna was killed off (thus turning the invasion into something far more horrific) because I had a character that tried to arrange peace between the two groups.

No worries man, like I've said I understand completely where your coming from but It was never planned for this to be anything of a flawless victory. I believe that if we play it out, that the Yokudans would win and it would be far from a Pyric Victory that would cripple the nation into peace, thats just my confidence in myself and our team which is why I'd hate to see it auto-resolved into something that its not. The Confederation simply can't hold its position, even the Crusader States fell eventually. To me, a Yokudan victory will happen one way or another, Bomilkar will see to that.