So, I hate Ranis Athrys. I want to do horrible things to her. As luck would have it, without changing anything at all I get to ruin her life - joy! But if I do, I pass up my favorite dagger, Souldrinker - BOO. That means CONSTRUCTION SET TIEM. So eh, two dialogue lines and a journal entry later, that lovable scamp Ajira will kindly steal the usual reward for you,allowing Telvanni spies to stay in character without passing up a reward that is inexplicably easier to get than the big pile of nothing they're presented with if they DON'T go to the trouble of first escorting Itermerel all the way to Pelagiad unharmed, then listening sympathetically to Tashpi Ashibael who isn't a necromancer and even if she were, you're Telvanni so you shouldn't care, and finally clicking the non-obvious dialogue options that let you leave Tiram Gadar right where he is so he can keep doing his job. *deep breath*

So yeah. Made it, cleaned it, tested it, http://www.4shared.com/file/wFVnXqNe/Mages_Guild_Spy_Fix.html. Julan approves BTW.

EDIT: This seems to be turning into a larger project of patching holes in quests/dialogue/etc, so I will collect here a working list of proposed fixes and changes:

[List of proposed changes completed and removed - see below]

EDIT AGAIN: Here is the list of things I have done so far.

Changes to Ranis's Telvanni Spy quest:
-Orphaned journal entries about Movis Darys and Tiram Gadar were linked back in with new dialogue lines. A nonsensical misplaced dialogue response from Trebonius was fixed.
-Players who opt to have Ranis expelled can get the usual quest reward from Ajira, and gain a faction disposition increase with House Telvanni instead of the Mages' Guild.
-If Ranis is expelled, Tiram will be sent to take her place. he will appear in Ranis's spot after the player collects the reward from Ajira, with all of Ranis's old services including advancement.
-Changed dialogue and quest-resolution options for players who are Archmage or who become Archmage during quest: an Archmage player can choose to either expel Tiram themselves or keep him around, assigning Ranis the job of undermining House Telvanni by feeding Tiram false info.
-Telvanni players can scold Tiram over his bad credentials. Telvanni players who are also Archmage can fire Tiram from his post, as he is obviously no longer needed, and tell Ranis he was expelled.

Changes to Trebonius's quests:
-Players who kill Trebonius before solving the Mystery of the Dwarves will end the quest when they find out what happened, with a journal entry indicating intent to publish on their own instead of taking their findings to Trebonius.
-The initial journal entry for the "Kill Telvanni Councillors" quest has been edited - apparently Bethesda wrote it twice with slightly different wording. The unused entry's wording was less repetitive so it has been swapped in. The quest will be marked complete when the player becomes Arch-Mage.
-Telvanni players will be able to report Trebonius's orders to kill all the Councillors to the Mouths.
-Trebonius will no longer challenge the player to a duel right away after the player becomes a Wizard. The player now MUST speak with Skink or Edwinna and in order to advance - previously, these two quest options amounted to nothing at all. The "Master Wizard" rank is also no longer skippable.

Working on:
-If the player is co-Archmage when Trebonius gives the "Kill Telvanni Councilors" and is also a member of House Telvanni, s/he may call for a hit on Trebonius to circumvent those orders after reporting to the Mouths.


Does anyone know of any other holes that could be patched?

Boss, just totally, and utterly, boss.

Haven't had a character join Telvanni/Mages Guild faction, but I think I, too, would be pissed if I had to pass up an awesome reward for staying in character. Downloaded and stored for future use, thank you!

Now I feel less alone.

Another thing that pisses me off is when you become Arch-Mage: if you kill Trebonius, you won't get any reputation points, which doesn't quite make sense since everybody in the guild agrees upon the fact that he is a complete dope.

Oh yeah - good call.

Thanks Plangkye ... now I get to have the dagger without being Ranis' lapdog which I always hated having to be .. and also don't have to turn in Tiram which is another plus

Okay, been thinking further... I might just edit this one further, making it more "Mages' Guild Roleplay Patches" than just "Mages' Guild Spy Fix." Thoughts on possible changes:
-Moving Tiram to the Balmora guildhall where Ranis used to be and giving him Ranis's old service options, active upon Ranis's expulsion; changing dialogue to say he's been put in charge of Balmora's guildhall since after Ranis was expelled they needed a new steward
-For Telvanni players, a further smallish reward for the meddling Ranis's expulsion and the player's continued loyalty that can be obtained from Tiram, and a Telvanni faction reputation increase
-Option to publish your own paper on the Disappearance of the Dwarves, allowing completion of that quest even after Trebonius's death
-Ending the "Kill the Telvanni Councillors" quest on Trebonius's death so it doesn't clutter up the journal, and using the other journal entry* "I'm not sure how, or even if, I should do this" on quest receipt instead of the more boring "I'm not sure if he was serious" which was also in the Disappearance of the Dwarves entry, making journals less repetitive
-Mages' Guild faction reputation increase upon Trebonius's death; nobody likes Trebonius and the guildmages are happy to have a new leader

Anything else you folks suggest I should change?


*Bethesda apparently wrote the journals for this quest twice, with slightly different wording

Please do .. sounds very interesting Plangkye .. it's quite late here and I'm nearly falling asleep at the keyboard so I'll have to get back to you on suggestions after I've slept ... that is if I can come up with any

What if Ranis really was a spy - for Hlaalu or Redoran or something similar - and suppose she wants revenge when she's kicked out of the guild?

Ranis's Revenge? Cool idea. I don't think that even necessitates her working for anyone other than herself, even. Worth thinking about, but adding new quests takes a back seat to fixing holes in old ones.

Think I'll edit my first post with an idea list to collect em all in one place.

Remember with any quests involving Ranis; Her parents were murdered by the old Telvanni archmagister. (Hence why she hates mages who are not from the Guild)

I'm not sure that'll be relevant, as the changes I'm making are only relevant to players who are in the Guild anyway.