I'll admit my knowledge of such concepts is limited, but I was always fascinated by the idea that some of the most powerful figures in the Elder Scrolls universe essentially cheated themselves into power, and gladly fulfill the archetype of the Thief.

While we're not told too much about the personage of Titus Mede in the new Elder Scrolls novel, there is a certain passage I find interesting on page 108:

Titus Mede had been - and was - many things. A soldier in an outlaw army, a warlord in Colovia, a king in Cyrodill, and Emperor.

I find the part about an outlaw army very interesting. What should we assume that means? I detect subtle duality at play here - we can either read it as him starting out as a resistance fighter in an illegal army to combat the official government ran by the Council post-Oblivion, or we can take it more literally and assume he was some sort of bandit or marauder. The former is the far more likely scenarior, but is boring to me and therefore wrong in essence, but to imagine that the new Emperor was at one time quite literally a Thief is intriguing indeed. Perhaps he, like his son Attrebus, was never that great a fighter at all and depended on better men to cut a path to the throne. If that were the case he shares characteristics with Lord Vivec, and Talos Stormcrown himself.

Or perhaps Attrebus is the true Thief, and in the tradition of Martin Septim is destined to be a far greater man than his father in the end? Perhaps Mede was the Warrior and his son the Thief - but who is the Mage in this equation? I might be reading too much into this but at this point I look for these patterns in the lore.

It is interesting to see that such a passage comes on page 108, which is how old Tiber Septim was when he died. There was another figure (King Harold?) from TES that lived exactly that long as well. I liked it to the potential "eighty and one" separate thrones and peoples in the Loveletter, with "eighty and one" being a backwards numeric "108".

Or perhaps I read too much into things, no?

___TWM

I'd like to hear more about Titus myself; hopefully Keyes will fill in more of the blanks in the second novel. When I read "The Infernal City", I didn't get the feeling Titus had been a bandit -- more like a Legion officer with men personally loyal to him who had become a warlord when the Empire decayed after the Oblivion Crisis. But I could be reading too much into it.

What would these forums be without the word merchant? I consider myself pretty good at spotting correlations, but this takes the cake.

Hrmm. Wouldn't it be interesting to know the actual star sign of Titus Mede? Is there anyway we can know?

Not until the second novel, if then, I would guess. We're not told Titus' exact age, let alone the month he was born. Though we're told his son is 22 if I remember right.

Interesting question, though. You'd have to ask Keyes himself, or at least Bethesda employees.

A better triad to ask: Sul's the mage. Is Annaig or Attrebus the Warrior?

[Book Spoilers!!!]

That just gave me the idea that each "Storyline" represents the thief, mage, or warrior. The thief would be Collin, always using speechcraft or stealth to get by, and using his knife when he needs to. The mage (I think) would be Annaig/Mere-Glim as they are exploring a new world and are learning about its own magics and inhabitants, not to mention the huge use of alchemy in their story. The warrior would then be Sul and Attrebus as theirs is the only story where the heroes actually enter combat. There's Each story demonstrates the skills and attributes of each birthsign. Obviously this is open to interperetation, but I believe my thought-process holds some merit. Thanks Mehrunes Dagon for the thought provoking post! :thumbsup:

A good post. I wonder if we're also seeing the usual Enantiomorph being played out, with Annaig being the one fought over. Just a half-formed thought, though. The novel is heading for Annaig to become Attrebus' mate (and presumably the empress someday, or at least ruling next to Attrebus). It could be that they're destined for this, though we don't know yet if it's the will of the gods or just chance.

I get the impression that Keyes is leading us to assume Mede won't survive this series of books..too many little foreshadowing passages, such as Attrebus being told that if anything happened to his father he'd be hearing plenty of court gossip all the time, and the whole subplot with the group who wants Mede dead, etc.

As corny as it sounds, I'm calling it now - I think Attrebus will become Emperor before he's an old man, and Annaig will be his queen. Perhaps she, not Sul, is the Mage...she's a Breton and she has hidden depths of power and resourcefulness.

If this is about the Enantiomorph, and not just the first book's plot, then I could see how Annaig is the Thief: Beggar, Thief, Warrior, and King. Why else would a slum rat like her rise so quickly? I think her story carries with it the hallmarks of Rebel or Thief. The Prince will die, Titus and Sul will kill eachother, and Annaig will sieze the throne. I would discount Glim as a friend who needs to die, a bit of her past and predictability that squelches her adventurous spirit from realizing her worth. I say he's stuck on Umbriel, while she escapes. That's my "call".

I wish he would have Annaig embrace her life in Umbriel, personally (despite the low chances of it happening, from the way Infernal city ended). That she fully embraces the lifestyle and becomes an antagonist, with Glim being the rebel at the bottom of the pile, forced to fight his own childhood friend in order to do what's right.

edit: but if I had to guess how it would end, Glim would die, Sul may die doing a heroic sacrifice, Attrebus will either become a man or die, and Attrebus and Annaig are the official couple.

81 Is also: The second highest trainer's level for all magic trainers in Morrowind.
The health of a trading Dumner citizen in Morrowind.
The health of several other NPC's


could they all be lost heirs to the Dragon throne? or the ancestors of future leaders?

You're a riot :hehe:

If that's a coincidence, then it is a very big, interesting one. Let's over-anolyze the night away. or rather, you do that while I go to work.



We already did. A and B (masculine) fight over C (feminine). Sul and Vuhon fight over Ilsheven and then there's a big explosion.

Although I have been known for some pretty off the wall theories, this one was really just meant as a joke, fellas. Don't rain down your ridicule too hard. (I have a very fragile ego.) Lol.


___TWM

What if Attrebus was actually the thief, and Titus was the warrior? We know by Titu's life that he has been the one to let the sword do the talking, rising from an outlaw officer to now emperor. With Attrebus, despite his horrid combat skills, has a tongue made of silver, and has been shown repeatedly though the book that he has a knack for talking people onto his side, diffusion bad situations, and talk his way into buying lots of time and causing the enemy to reveal weaknesses or critical information.

With Tiber, there was the emperor, who also had the uncanny ability to talk and communicate, and was the thief in that relation. Then there was Tiber the warrior, who was Wulfhart, and was the one who lead the armies and conquered.

As for the mage, I'm going to put that on hold of whether it's Annaig or Sul till the next book.

That's what I was thinking, but I can't also shake what happens in the confrontation scene where Annaig is visibly not present. Now, granted she wasn't involved or anything like that so wasn't actually sneaking around to sabotage things, but Warriors (less so on the mages) are usually the ones to confront the evil baddies. So maybe it's Sul-Warrior/Annaig-Mage/Attrebus-Thief.

I know, but it is pretty crazy. Let's just toss it around for fun!


I can't shake the sense that we still don't have the entire picture. This idea *sounds* right but it doesn't *feel* right. And I'm not *explaining* right. Either way, I think that we need to look more into that by checking the rough character classes.

Sul: Battlemage.
Annaig: No class, alchemist?
Attrebus: Fraud? Good with speechcraft.
Glim: No class.
Colin: Stealth mage (name?)
Titus Mede: Warrior-king type of guy.
Vuhon: Mage

We have seven, so we have an odd-man-out for sure, even after the assumption we have multiple groupings of three. Glim seems easiest, since he doesn't even have a budding class. The three obviously magely characters group well, Sul is combat-mage, Vuhon is pure mage and Colin is stealth mage. Then there's the three tryimg to bring down Umbriel, which you have up, Dagon, then there's Mede, Attrebus and Vuhon as King, legitimate heir and usurper. Then of course you have this chancellor guy who may or may not be involved with the attempt to kill Attrebus, who could replace Vuhon on the previous. I still think we may be missing too much and we'll figure out the groupings with more certainty later.

Battlemage is a pretty good class description for Sul, but I peg him as more of a Sorcerer or Spellsword - possibly an extremely powerful Sorcerer who just happens to be an expert swordsman, like Divath Fyr (who didn't have a single skill that was weak in the CS).

Colin, I would definitely consider to be a Nightblade or an Assassin with some casting ability.

Vuhon is technically a mage but a thief in his own right. Subtle hints lead me to believe he has actually found a way to trap Umbra and use him as a power source. Umbra is the Prince of Umbriel but isn't even in charge of his own realm. Vuhon's dialogue suggests that he, not Umbra, is Lord Umbriel and that he simply taps into Umbra like a battery, like the Tribunal did the Heart.

I saw them more as symbiotes, but your idea could work too. I thought that's what he wanted the sword back for, though, so that he would be in complete control.

Either way I find it very odd that Umbra himself didn't appear in the first novel. He either chose not to or was unable to at the time. It just seems to me that Vuhon is an extremely deceitful and greedy person who probably has ulterior motives with the Umbra sword.

That's kind of what I thought they were hinting at that. Glad I wasn't the only one.

Or he could've fortified his blade for the fight, which would put him more like a Sorcerer or Mage.

Aside from the mage comparison, I don't think Colin is really in any triad with anyone else right now.

There's also the triad on Umbriel who do not belong where they are, being Annaig, Glim, and Slyr. Glim actively seeks to understand Umbriel, Slyr is looking out for numero uno if perhaps out of a twisted sense of self-preservation, a very Thief-like trait, and that leave Annaig as the Warrior. This might shed more light on her role in other triads as well. Which leaves the question, is a trait of the Warrior that he is very good at what he does, but is highly specialized that way? Annaig, despite being only moderately good at alchemy in the beginning of the novel, seems to have mastered it by the end.

Good-golly. We could probably do this all day.

I get the impression that while we've read entirely too much into this, that it's far from a waste of time because we keep having these side revelations about the plot.