I've always felt the whole 'starting in a prison as a slob with no valuable life skills or experiences' is a good aping, even demonstration, of Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

Just as Plato's theoretical prisoner is freed from captivity and taken to the surface, where he slowly adjusts to light, growing in knowledge of the world and himself to eventually find his ultimate destiny in the light of the sun; Our PCs start imprisoned, not just in a particular dungeon, but in a lifestyle rut. Level-up screen confirm that for most of our character's life, before they became saddled with their quest, they had just drifted through life without direction or real vocation - at one point I believe it's described as "like waking from a dream". Gaining experience, he/she slowly climbs the rungs of destiny, leaving those old wall-shadows behind and embracing the true incandescent face of the Aurbis itself.

I guess what I'm really saying is that no matter what class you think you're playing, you're actually always a Philosopher.

Having read Allegory of the Cave, I can kind of see a resemblance with the story and our beginning predicament. Both start out as blank slates and come to love their new worlds outside their confinements. Except we don't go back into the cave and tell the others about the outside world

Sometimes leveling made me feel bad, if I missed some bonus points on a stat or two.
But the fortunecookie one-liners always made me feel better

Don't have much to add, beyond our beloved PC seeing truth and awesomeness and freedom. The Hero is awesome cuz he bathes in godlight; only fun things can happen if you stay so long in that mythic radiation

I dunno. I brought it up once and I think the general response was "it's a wholly non-referencial tradition." But I like this better. I also likened it to the hero's journey, where an ex-con is also an "outsider," even if they are from somewhere very close.

Or they just don't care and want that as a templated started from Oblivion. I never even consider it a "tradition" anyway.

Better question is why can't they just let the player start somewhere like they did in Daggerfall (shipwreck/cave), Redguard (Ship), Battlespire (Academy), and Morrowind (immigration ship)? Never really start out as a ex-con in these.

Or go old school and all start out in an inn. That would be something.

Morrowind was a prison immigration ship, and at least in that the Temple called you out on it when you started fulfilling prophecies.

And because an inn won't let people draw comparisons to the hero's journey or Plato's Cave, therefore can just go home and not bother auditioning for this studio again.

Plato's cave is about discovering the true world, the world that transcends the five senses, the world where the Forms exist, the world that transcends space and time. This world can only be perceived through pure reason, the ascent of the mind.

If there IS a correlation between our character coming out of a cave in a similar way, then the makers of the Elder Scrolls are trying to say that the fantasy world of the game (i.e., Tamriel) is the true world, the way things truly are. The fantasy is reality, and reality is but a fantasy.

But of course, any sane person must reject this.

But no real direct reference in the said player is say ex-con. Hell, s/he could be secret agent for the Blade laying low or just some nobody that stowaway in the boat that took Jiub's job of delivering the letter. As for the Temple, that came to no surprise as they want ya dead to begin with as ya will be the one that would eventually lead their downfall.


Be a nobody and become a hero at the end of the day. That doesn't have to limit to just a cave, nor the fact they have to be a convict; and an inn is a perfect place to start out as a nobody.

Chh. Have fun being sane. Except oh yeah, that's right, you won't.

Actually, if a person understands the overall point of fantasy instead of the woefully common wrongheaded attitude of "it's just boyish escapism" then one must accept this. Fantasy is where people are allowed to tell the truth and bring down the barriers they keep around themselves and be honest about the way humanity works, as far as they know. Fantasy is how humans can be human and not "dumb animals trying to get in from the cold" because our sub-creative tendencies, as Tolkien would have called it, are the most human part about humans.

And because the overall arc of The Elder Scrolls is about the power of transcendence, whether through love or violence or that place where they both mix (personality), and about the unbreakable links between arthurian trios so that one is always among its counterparts, and about the very power of collective imagination itself, all of which can be called "true things," well then The Elder Scrolls is a fantasy about humans as they truly are beyond the crude matter of space and the heartless decays of time.

"They have taken you from the Imperial City's prison, first by carriage and now by boat, to the east to Morrowind." -- Morrowind intro

What you're doing in prison, of course, is up to you. There's nothing saying you couldn't be deep undercover and planted by someone.

Again:



It could mean alot of thing; doesn't have to be exact or set in stone. It does not have to actually automatically place the player as a prisoner and the second the player get out of the ship, everyone just call ya outlander. And beside, this is Azura as a narrator. That demon always lies.

Wake up. We're there. Even that storm couldn't wake you.

Only problem with this is...

Only problem with that is



Correct me if I'm wrong.

You were arrested for crossing the border illegally. Why you chose to do that is up to you.

so what your saying is that I'm... Socrates?

That's never explicitly stated, actually. What was going on was [NUMINIT]

Yet this world keeps us here, and all was just for ink and gold.

Really you can see whatever you want to see in just about anything if you look hard enough. I could say that we(The heroes) are beings from another dimension who pop into Tamriel to save the day. No one knows us from beforehand. Even when we become famous, no relatives, enemies or old friends come out of the woodwork to say whats up. No one knows why we were in jail or why we are going to our execution for crossing the border. We have powers no one else has. We can make a difference where no one else could. We are unique. Our souls must be from another dimension. Really if you want to see a correlation with this and Plato's Allegory, there is enough evidence to make a correlation. Just not a relation. Cool idea though. I like it.

You are neither right nor wrong. But someone is going to impose their opinion on it being one way or the other regardless.

Not so. Valid critical theory requires valid textual citations.

You missed my point I think. I am saying someone can see something that is there even though there is no real reason to see that thing there. If they really want to make the connection they will. Even if it does not make sense to anyone else. If it does make sense, that still does not mean it is true.

Example.

Your gf was seen with another guy. You have been fighting lately. She has been ignoring your phone calls. You think she is cheating. It is her brother she was hanging out with.

"Man is something that shall be overcome."

I didn't. The difference between a false positive and a valid critical anolysis is a cogent argument laid out with textual citations. It doesn't actually matter what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_fallacy, only what we can take away.

Assuredly, there is no tangible implied reference to the Republic. My gist is that I'm inferring some species of corollary to the Allegory of the Cave.

I wrote a thing about the prisoner motif a couple weeks ago. I'll http://liminoid.squarespace.com/writing/2011/10/22/the-prisoner.html, but basically, starting as a prisoner is a great entry point for the player because it mirrors the process of firing up a game and immersing ourselves in it generally. It's particularly effective in Elder Scrolls games because they do such a good job of creating their secondary worlds that you really do feel as though you're breaking out into freedom. Whether from a prison cell or just generally from captivity.

The Plato's cave connection I didn't make, but I love it.