I say 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

This thread isn't about attribute removal, so I'm just not going to rehash the same debate that's been going on for ages. The mere fact that it's a debate says that your opinion is not an objective fact.

And why do people always feel the need to enter into the realm of hyperbole? A blade and a shorter version of the same blade are clearly much more similar than a blade and an axe. Just like magic and bows are totally different. I know that I'm asking for a little common sense instead of mindless ranting, but I think it's what's needed here.

Dragon Age 2 was a pile of crap compared to Origins, I BELIEVE Skyrim won't be like what happen to DA2.

Whilst it might make you stronger using a one handed blade, and this strength will be carried across to using a two handed blade, it won't really help you. That's like saying being a black belt in judo makes you stronger therefore you're now also much better at boxing. Strength will only get you so far, it's mostly skill. A super strong, but not very skilled, cumbersome juggernaut wielding a two handed claymore is likely to get his ass handed to him by a much weaker (yet more lithe) swordsman using a one handed sword. In this instance, the attribute of strength is much less a determining factor of who's the better swordsman; specializing (or choosing perks) in a style of swordplay is much better way of illustrating who's better at swordplay.

Wrong on both counts.

We would have to tally total armor sets vs total armor permutations in each game, and even if the new sets were of a higher number than total permutations (unlikely), there is still the central issue of player investment that you didn't address.

Secondly, you did have a choice with regards to degredation. Blacksmiths could repair your armor and weapons if you chose not to invest in the armorer skill.

Regardless, your argument still boils down to "I didn't care about this feature, therefore it added nothing to variety". I don't even disagree with you on all counts (I'm optimistic about the removal of attributes and classes), but just because a feature didn't cater to how you play, that doesn't mean that no one enjoyed the choices it afforded.

That would defy the laws of physics. Honestly, the'd have to like delete half of the game and finish it iwith as little effort as possible within a month do match that travesty :tongue:

No clipping is more important than player investment in having badly-matched outfits.

And you must be remembering a different game than me with armor degradation. Unless you had a portable blacksmith. Because I don't recall thinking that I had the "choice" of stopping every 4-5 kills, running out of the dungeon, traveling to the nearest city, paying a blacksmith to repair my stuff, then running back.

You're right, though. It's about personal preference. I just find that based on what the developers have said so far, they seem to share my preferences (and, I'm guessing, the majority of the playerbase's preferences).

Todd look me in the eye and tell me that you didn't lie in Skyrim's E3 footage like you did in Oblivion's E3 footage

All of that bobbins is simply youy opinion. In fact, without exception I can honestly say all the things you listed were interesting and fun elements of the previous games in my OPINION. I will also say that removing them is 'simplifying the experience' and although I hate the phrase with a passion it is 'dumbing it down'.

If you're happy to play a diluted RPG that will sell billions thus exacerbating the problem for future releases then good for you. Just don't be surprised when you're playing TES 8 an 'On-the-rails action shooter for consoles only!' in 5 years time.

SPEARS

What, internet argument right?

Eating hammers to repair weapons was daft, but I'd prefer repairing weapons to upgrading them. Sharpening swords etc. nerevarine I roleplayed anyway, I don't carry repair hammers with me.

I believe someone until they give me definitive reasons otherwise. What has he ever said, outright, that turned out to be a blatant lie?

I'm just glad he's not constantly interrupting people like he normally does.

Yeah, it'll join all the other action shooters where you have skill sets based entirely around crafting your armor and enchanting it.

Hey there.

Just registered here as i am a big fan of the series since Morrowind.

I noticed that the whole gaming industry changed as i am playing video games all my life. When i started you could not tell anyone you were a passionate gamer since the people would stigmatize you and you would be done with them i live in switzerland where even up to this day you have to be careful when you tell someone you are a passionate gamer. some family members already stigmatized me for that. it's pretty bad from time to time as they don't seem to see that one can have a functioning social life while enjoying video games very much hehe.

With time the acceptance grew and nowadays it's mostly no problem to talk about it in the open. well, to this day i didn't find a girl, that liked videogames. i had to sac alot of playing time every time i got a new girl friend because they couldn't understand how drinking and partying was not the same fun for me as some nice adventuring in an rpg... sometimes i hate living here alltough it's a realy nice place

that's just as backstory. nowadays gamers all over the world are no longer that badly stigmatized (sry for my poor english, don't know a better word) and lots of casual gamers are joining everyday. games like wow made that possible. now you can say what you want, but i notized the newer generations in this fast turning world don't want to put in alot of time without having an instant gratification handed to them. wow told them that was possible. when i remember my first playsteps in morrowind i spend like 2 hours creating my character only to learn 1 hour later that i should have taken this over that. so scrap that and start anew. after again 3-4 hours of play i found out that this would suit me better than that and i again started anew... and so on. i can say before i even started playing the game for real i would have played tons of mindless games to the finish... alot of you may say that's a bad thing but exactly this happens when you have a complex game and endless choices to choose from. I LIKE!!!!

oblivion was already dumbed down alltough even there i spent like an hour in character creation and have it sacrificed an other hour later... but the second time i got it right then. now that are the games i miss deeply... i played darkfall online for 2 years but stopped mainly because the company that created it [censored] up badly. darkfall is a realy hardcoe game where even after 2 years of playing 4 hours a day you wouldn't have your character skills and stats finished (they gain as you use them like in TES). But the game got thumbed down because newer players (mainly FPS players that's to say, Darkfall is a MMORPG with FPS control style of play) wanted to play for 2 weeks and then be able to beat a vet that plays for 2 months or even 2 years. they cried so much on the forums that skillgains 2 years after release were about 30 times faster than they were at start... plus meditation came in where you could train up stats for gold... suddendly the game lost all it's appeal to me, but won alot of other because of that...

and well. i can't blame anyone who catters to casual players... there is the money. i wouldn't want to go to work only to be able to barely pay my bills either...

guys, face it, we will never again have a hardcoe game

i can't wait until skyrim comes out though, and beth if you screw up the release date i'm coming to get you... took 1 week of holidays from the 4 we have per year in switzerland just for you!!!

The problem with people like you, and everyone else who argues in favor of the phrase "dumbing it down" is the fact that as a general rule, when games are streamlined, people hate the change that brings. And most of the times for good reason, but ultimately it just forces close-minded people who feel like they've been betrayed into be unnecessarily jaded.

As for Skyrim, the game isn't streamlined, nor dumbed down. At all. It's condensed the superfluous aspects of it so it doesn't make you play longer purely because you're number crunching or min/maxing things that were pointless to begin with. At one point someone has to connect the dots and draw a line between fun an interesting, and utterly pointless. Something can be both at the same time. I would rather the guys at bethesda focus on something that's both fun and purposeful/effective in the game world than something that is fun but nonsensical. Hanging onto hallmarks of the old ways of doing things hard enough borders on delusion. Nothing ever stays the same for long, The Elder Scrolls has stayed the closest to its original mantra as anyone can hope for.

Theorycrafting because you're scared just perpetuates the fear, whether you acknowledge that or not.

iirc he did some Peter Molyneux overhyping and may have put his foot in his mouth especially with regards to Radiant AI, but this is a non-issue anyway, he was very vague and what exactly is "pulling a Dragon Age 2" anyway? Streamlining was the least of DA2's problems and we've already been told what Bethesda has streamlined(grrr attributes).

Aye Randomiza you're probably right...

"But god-damn it while the internet exists we will moan! We will moan on the beaches, we will moan on the internet forums, we will moan in the streets and in the fields, we shall moan in the hills, we shall will never give in moaning!"

:P

"I don't mind the skills have been reduced from 21 to 18"
[Gives reason why]
"Well, we may as well have one skill then, let's call it awesomeness, and let it apply to the one weapon, and one spell in the game."

Why does this argument keep cropping up?

OT : @Mumatil, Todd has been a bit reticent, even though his distaste is obvious, regarding jrpgs and Kinect, so how does his not slagging DA2 off, or dwelling on it's mixed reception, imply ignorance?

Ok, the days of games like boulder's gate are over get use to it people. It took me awhile to and still brings a tear to me eye thinking about it.

RPG's are now aimed towards a wider group and at-least it is cool now to play them. /''

I don't think any game maker will pull a da 2 on this -fingers crossed- but da 2 was a ok game not great, not good just ok fun to past a day of gaming with.

We will have to wait for a-lot of this to pan out and just hold our breath, but currently have faith in it that it will be enjoyable for all players on some levels.

What game developers aren't alllowed to express about another discontent about another developer's game?

Lol... someone needs education. A casual player can do all those things. Casual player does not equal dumb player

Maybe he liked DA2. lol

I hope not.

Although someones who tries gaming the first time may be unfamiliar with some concepts. Hyperbole would be playing chess with an intelligent caveman

:lmao: