Is the lack of bare asses (or other kinds of nudity) really facepalmrageworthy? What's the catch with that?

The ERSB does not ban nudity, it merely rates it.

The ERSB definition for mature is:

"MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sixual content and/or strong language." http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

sixual content is:

"sixual Content - Non-explicit depictions of sixual behavior, possibly including partial nudity." (Marked with italics for emphasis.) http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp


It is the developers who have determined, for their own reasons, to not include, or advertise nudity in the game.

The ERSB does not ban partial nudity in a M-rated game.

Observe that The Witcher 2 was rated Mature by the ERSB (not banned) with the following content descriptor:

Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong sixual Content, Use of Drugs

Edit - To add the ERSB content listing for Skyrim:

Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, sixual Themes, Use of Alcohol - http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

that is besides the point. This is the Skyrim forum, not a forum for whatever you want to discuss. He wants to just argue morality and use Skyrim as a means to be allowed to post his arguments here. Of course they are a form of art, that is a ridiculous question. Debates are not always good debates nor are they always appropriate or warranted.

* Disclaimer- didn't read whole thread..

Meh I think both nudity and very graphic violence such as decapitation have no place in games. It's not necessary, IMO. Yes, we are all naked under our clothes and I'm ok with that, but that doesn't mean I need to see nudity in my games. They are games, after all, and not real life. In real life, women don't throw themselves at men for every little favor, nor do all women under the age of 65 sway their asses when they walk ala Witcher. It's a good game, but as a female gamer I feel it was a little over the top in its representation of human sixuality, and not at all realistic.

IMO of the two I would rather see nudity (if I had to pick one) because I think very graphic violence is even more inappropriate, but honestly I don't see why we need either.

This is the American backwardness hard at work. It's okay to show primetime television with decapitations, murders, torture... but show a naked ass and OMFG THE CHILDREN!!!! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!

because if there was nudity it would have to be "advlt" rated which requires an id and no one would buy the game

From what I've seen in my short time in Wyoming, people seemed just relaxed about it as they did in Alaska. I think it's because the people with the loudest voices are the ones that get heard, and those people are the ones outraged about nudity, not the people who couldn't care less.

I'm just a young guy though, and I only know how other young people see it.

What bothers me in these threads is the guys who take insulting approaches to the matter.. do we really need does types of comments? Its kinda weird that the same person that feels uncomfortable with this matter takes that kinda of approach to it.. it only makes it look like you don't get the point of the thread. It's not only being offensive but also kinda silly because your basically saying that if having a girlfriend is for fulling your needs to watching a nvde body...
Also i haven't seen anyone here stating they want nudity in skyrim... the thread is not about wanting nudity.

Do keep in mind that most of this sort of thing (and this includes decaps, murders, etc) are only issues because the FCC says it is. Move over to cable, and you no longer have this problem with either nudity or violence because the FCC doesn't regulate cable the same way.

It has nothing to do with the rating boards anymore. Nudity is M rated. They've had a few games in the past few years with floppy [censored] for jebus sake. Nudity, at this point in a game, has more to do with if the developer is comfortable with it and a lot of them shy away from it like it'll destroy them. I can see doing full frontal via no clothing on having issues do to players being able to manipulate dead bodies and the like though. That's about where I think it would kill it for this type of game. The older Conan approach of topless and g-string would get around it but that's still a bit awkward.

Just 2 primary examples but Red Dead had a topless women 'while' she was getting plowed directly on screen 'while' you talked with the guy who was giving it to her. And the more recent Noir game had an awful lot of naked dead women in it halfway through. Full frontal naked dead women. Hell a lot of that game was crazy messed up but that's kinda part of the job.

Anyways, point is, they aren't doing it cause they don't feel comfortable doing it, or there still scared of the rating board even though its accepted and would earn them the M rating they already have.

Where did he said this? on which interview?

It does seem to be a weird American thing that is reflected in the ratings system and the vocal moral minority that violence is fine but butts and boobies are a big no no. You can't really blame the game developers for wanting to avoid that particular sh*t storm by putting some nudity in there.

Combat, along with the hacking, bludgeoning, and burning of living bodies, is a central element of the game, and decapitation might actually have gameplay value. Bare buttocks might have gameplay value in Deliverance: the RPG, but they have none in Skyrim.

Indeed it is, both a fantasy world, and believable without nudity. I think it can be made much more believable though
adding a certain level of nudity/six into the mix. After all, the setting is one of a fairly primitive world brimful of gore
and violence in all it glory. I am sure that in such a place drinking and nudity/six was not completely unheard of.

Of course. But its also the culture we live in. The US isn't even alone in these attitudes toward violence and six.

I can't quite bring myself to blame Bethesda tho, since their job is to make money, not push for social change.

About the best one can do is start a game company in a country with different attitudes such as, say, Lithuania or the Czech Republic, and make games with different priorities.

It is. And because of that, the behaviours and instincts that you support repressing by avoiding nudity, don't actually require any nudity to be activated. The youth who is going to sit around gazing lecherously at nvde pixilated people, will do just as much lecherous gazing at the scantily clad people the game allows. The will arrange fully clothed and armoured npc corpses in suggestive positions, and all the same lascivious little thoughts will flit through their lascivious little minds. . . because Nature and Instinct are at work at they don't require the perfect set up.

In this regard, an ass is no different from a mouth or a hand. Anyone who looks at one and goes straight to thoughts of six, was already predisposed to sixual thoughts, . I.E. it isn't the bum that is "filthy", its the viewers mind.

It isn't nvdes in video gamesthat ake adolescents focus on six. Its God/Nature/Evolution/Biology that has geared them up that way since time immemorial. We won't veer off onto the interesting incongruity that most nations and most U.S. states set the age for full sixual consent at 16, but set much higher restrictions who can see sixual images. But, again, I don't want to veer too far off topic. This is not intended to be a six thread, merely a commentary on the dysfunction that legitimizes EXTREME depictions of mortal violence while veering away from even basic nudity.

Besides, everyone with eyes knows what an ass looks like anyway, and the sight isn't particularly disturbing. A beheading, however. . . .

Mature rating means there must be Boobies? Real mature arguement there.
Plenty of rated R movies have no nudity in them. Whether boobies or not I just want a good movie. Skyrim is no different. I want a good game.

But seriously. If you want nudity, just go to ANY OTHER SITE ON THE INTERWEBZ.

I would rather have Skyrim sell as many copies as possible. That way, the next game will be even more gooderer.

Squee like a pig.

I think this is the cause of it.
The chance of experiencing six and sensual nudity is very high, so everyone have their own expectations, fantasies etc, but it is a very private subject people seem to want to keep to themselves.
Murder on the other hand is something few will experience, and since it is a very "public" thing people seem to be more open to discussing it.

That said: I feel this "nudity is the devil" attitude is very American. At least in the part of Norway I live we have few issues about non-sixual nudity, while six and sensual nudity is something people should do in private since it does not have anything to do with those who do not participate.
I feel that nudity(as well as overly done decapitations and gore) are unnecessary and won't add anything to the game. Even brothels can easily be covered by semi-nudity and implications.

That might be because there is little character interaction beyond violence. I hope they add more character interaction!

You know, I'm just wondering if the only part of nudity the OP is thinking about is women? Because I for one don't want some crazy naked bandit charging me with his wang flopping about. And if you have nudity in a game it wouldn't be fair to the ladies to only have naked females..(Though I'm sure 99% of the women who play games don't care for video game wangs.)

You know what... The issue regarding the absence of nudity is not soely based on the morality. The issue is that it is a video game with limitations on goals; those being Story, Combat, and Treasure for TES. The reason that nudity is not in, is very related to the reason that spears, athletics, acrobtics, and spellmaking are not in; the devs are focused on the important aspects of the game, and nudity and six are as unimportant as making sure your horse leaves fecal droppings on the trail behind you as you travel. I will admit that the rating system is another motivating factor, but it is not the primary in my opinion. Every game, no mater how pormographic it is, is still a video game. If you want to see nudity, then go find it in real life. Real life will always be the best video game for that. So please have the devs focus on the more important things, I want to see spears return way before they get something in as unimportant as nudity. The fact that the books in the game reference six in explicit terms is immersion enough, period. And those that are obssessed with having nuddity and six in the game are probably just as messed up as those who vehemently oppose it on supposed moral grounds. I personally do not care if it is in or not, as long as I also get to keep the in-game choice of abstinence as well if I so choose.

TES videogames are for the combat and exlporation in a wierd world without the conesquence of "real-life" death. If you want six, then go find it in the real world. Just don't try and do it with your neighbor's wife, or your really might get a "real-life" death.

The morality isn't tainted on the revelation of sixuality. Morality is found in the choices regarding sixuality. There is a major moral difference between consensual fornication and [censored], and no one can win a debate against that. It is the duty of the older generartion to teach the younger one these things, rather than hide their sins in futility. So even though I agree on the point of hipocrisy, I do not think it is a valid argument for bethesda to sacrifice time and resources into its implementation.

Its not Todd and Co. its society and the ESRB/PEGI and Co.

People, especially here in N.America, any amount of sixuality in a video game is not allowed. It's a no-no.

Violence on the other hand, especially in N. America is perfectly fine.

Blame people, not Todd and Bethesda.

When people are all be breaking into throes of ecstasy because they can lop someone's head off in the game, but then making the wtf face about the notion of the game having any aspect of nudity. . . then yes, the facepalm is definitely in order.