Tolkein Wood Elves vs. Elder Scrolls Wood Elves : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:32 am

In the PGE 1st Ed, although the Aldmeri Dominion was at war with the Empire, the Bosmer were portrayed as chirpily amicable, if a bit backwards. Still, I think the games have taken it to extremes and turned them into comic relief.

Only the males. And even then, if we gave them a voice that belongs to at least a teenage boy, and made them grow another eight or so inches, then I don't think that there would be any problem.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:24 am

Yes but it would have to be rated Mature on Xbox and the pc lol

But not on PS3?

Yes, I'd say that's fair. I also wonder why TES Bosmer are considered to be so annoying. I wonder if it has to do with the nature of the Bosmer folk (which isn't well elaborated, but it's all we have to go on): they're basically forest savages with a thin layer of civilization plated on. The ones that get by in Cyrodiil society are those that have some command of the arts of being polite and friendly, but they don't have enough command of these foreign arts to get them right. Thus all Bosmer are irritatingly, overcorrectly polite, and friendly Bosmer are just over-the-top off-puttingly affectionate. And some of them can't handle the stress of living in urban society and go mad.

If Bosmer were as they are supposed to be, I would have more reason to play as them. They are the coolest racein tehir own habitat, but outside it, incessantly irritating. Come to think of it, I've seen Taelendril eat apples before. Heathen.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:09 pm

But not on PS3?

Of course not. :lol:

If Bosmer were as they are supposed to be, I would have more reason to play as them. They are the coolest racein tehir own habitat, but outside it, incessantly irritating. Come to think of it, I've seen Taelendril eat apples before. Heathen.

Once again, it's just the male Bosmer. Ever seen a female Bosmer piss you off? Of course not. They aren't midgets, and their voices are lower-pitched than those of the opposite six within their own race. Also, Taelendril is an Imperialized Bosmer. There's no reason for her to follow the Green Pact or the Meat Mandate. No one would care, and people would just be plain weirded out if she did follow them, considering the fact that she lives in Cyrodiil.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:15 am

Tolkien and his parents were immigrants he brought the stories here from his background of reading the hundreds of books done way before his time.The oldest of the stories dating back thousands of years to Norse Mythology.Lately I continue to see more and more of this Tolkien is the godfather of RPGs,it is simply false.Tolkien's books were published in the US put at the time most of the people that read these stories were the German immigrants,that had grown up on these stories that had been passed from the generations.I guess it is the movies and the MMO's that fuel this Tolkien stuff.But what Tolkien did do was,read tons of books like his in his youth that influenced his works.So all that said,Norse Mythology would be the Main Influence of these games not Tolkien.Please I am tired of hearing this falsehood.Bethesda took the works of the old Scandanavian stories and put their own twists on them.Yes you are right the Bosmer are different.As is so much more.

I just wanted to post my original thread as I thought it was,in context of what I was saying yes the immigrant issue could be seen in different ways.But my post was concerning,what in my mind is the loss of the original history of these stories,and that all these things came from Tolkien.Bethesda like many others may have been influenced from Tolkiens works but he did not start these stories,I know quite abit about theology and mythology,being a lover of history it just seems alot of this is getting lost and there are some very good stories.And lots of wonderful minds and philosophies played major roles in this if you had read all of my post withstanding the immigrant issues you would see this.The Bosmer has nothing to do with Tolkiens woodelves,they came from earlier influences because his works came from earlier influences.I just want things to be put in context.So the next great minds reading these posts realise all of the other wonderful influences thoughout history.All that being said it is very important to someone like me that,the great histories,theologies,philosophies get their dues.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:25 pm

In the PGE 1st Ed, although the Aldmeri Dominion was at war with the Empire, the Bosmer were portrayed as chirpily amicable, if a bit backwards. Still, I think the games have taken it to extremes and turned them into comic relief.

It was just Imperial propaganda, becouse Valenwood was territory was part of Dominion. I think Valenwood ones are much more xenophobic and suspicious, PGE3 says they are leaving cities and returning to live in wild.

You cannot compare Valenwood Bosmers and Imperialised ones. Its like comparing Blacks living in USA and ones living in Africa.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:52 am

It was just Imperial propaganda, becouse Valenwood was territory was part of Dominion. I think Valenwood ones are much more xenophobic and suspicious, PGE3 says they are leaving cities and returning to live in wild.

Portraying one of their foes as "chirpily amicable" (my words) is "just Imperial propaganda"? That's... uh, a bit out of keeping with the nature of propaganda, both in the PGE 1st ed and in the wider world. Especially since they really are insufferably chirpy. As for the "if a bit backwards bit", they're that too. But the PGE is far easier on them than it is on the Altmer.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:04 pm

And much of today's fantasy is still based off of Tolkien's view of fantasy.

That's only because people lack imagination.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:09 pm

If this stuff is supposed to happen then why doesnt it. I havent seen glarthir try and eat any body and I could of sworn he was eying that grass next to the chapel in skingrad

Oh no, a Bosmer would never eat plant unless he was willing to break the Grene Pact. Us Bosmers are an interesting people.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:24 pm

That's only because people lack imagination.

Aye. Unfortunately, it's tha truth.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:47 am

I prefer Bosmers over the "gayish" elves of Tolkien but they both have their advantages. Bosmers biggest disadvantage is that they will grow fat at large scale wars.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:04 pm

Bosmers biggest disadvantage is that they will grow fat at large scale wars.

Imagine how horrific it would be to see a group of Bosmer charging torwards you all of them fat after eating your dead friends.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:10 am

Yeah that would be a pretty nasty sight.

But I would guess that the Tolkien elves would win as they dont have to eat after the battle and they can fire arrows from a couple of hundred miles away lol.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:59 pm

Cannabalism and all the other things they practice appear pretty evil. It would be cool though if someone made an elf race maybe not called the bosmer or woodelves that has the characteristics of Tolken wood elves maybe called Blackwood Elves that could be woven into the lore because I think they are missing and if they were from blackwood it wouldnt interfere with the wood elves. Maybe they could be wood elves that migrated like the wood elves themselves did from solsteim to black wood and gained different attributes more suiting to the swamps of southern cyrodiil. After all like it has been said before "Tolken is the father of Modern High Fantasy. Also if wood elves are primiive than dont you think this is more like how they would act if they werent primitive. I am not saying they should be immortal or perfect and btw the high elves basically the ones from Rivendell in Lord of the Rings are immortal and perfect but the elves of Mirkwood like legolas arent so perfect. Mirkwood and Blackwood are also kind of similar I mean they arent actually the same thing but that whole dark look that takes place in certain areas of blackwood would make it seem appropriate.

I must admit I am appalled. TES lore is great becuase of it's diversity and uniqeness when compared to other RPG's. If you want a LOTR clone go buy a game that features it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:27 pm

The High-Elves aren't very Tokien either.
They think of all other races(including other Elves) as animals and wan't to remove humans from exsinstence. They also hate the fact that the world exists.

If TES was anything like Tolkien I wouldn't play the games.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:48 pm

The High-Elves aren't very Tokien either.
They think of all other races(including other Elves) as animals and wan't to remove humans from exsinstence. They also hate the fact that the world exists.

If TES was anything like Tolkien I wouldn't play the games.

The Elves are just ethnocentric. Thats why they act like that. They arent necessarily evil just stubborn. The bosmer sound evil

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:06 pm

I must admit I am appalled. TES lore is great becuase of it's diversity and uniqeness when compared to other RPG's. If you want a LOTR clone go buy a game that features it.

They would be great if they followed there own lore. I dont see why its only the males that are the short annoying ones. Plus potions are made from plants and wood elves drink those. I just wish they would stop making them the "comic relief" and leave them just the smallest amount of dignity. Also if you want a LOTR clone then this is the best game to get it. We can mod and change anything we want, and even come up with our own lore in our own games if we wanted. No other game that I know of has that kind of freedom.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:42 pm

They would be great if they followed there own lore. I dont see why its only the males that are the short annoying ones. Plus potions are made from plants and wood elves drink those. I just wish they would stop making them the "comic relief" and leave them just the smallest amount of dignity. Also if you want a LOTR clone then this is the best game to get it. We can mod and change anything we want, and even come up with our own lore in our own games if we wanted. No other game that I know of has that kind of freedom.

I dont want a LOTR clone just everywhere I have looked wood elves are herbivores, friendy, there is no green pact, and they are usually good people not carnivores who eat everything they kill.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:26 pm

everywhere I have looked wood elves are herbivores, friendy, there is no green pact, and they are usually good people not carnivores who eat everything they kill.

its cause you haven't looked in Valenwood

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:57 am

I dont want a LOTR clone just everywhere I have looked wood elves are herbivores, friendy, there is no green pact, and they are usually good people not carnivores who eat everything they kill.

The people who we have met are in fact immigrants, who usually are either accultured to the host culture, or not the type to be enfatuated with their home culture (coming from a two-time immigrant) and are not represantive of their people.

And religious fanatics tend not to move to a place where they aren't that religion. Go to Valenwood learn what Bosmer culture is like, don't judge by immigrants.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:02 pm

The people who we have met are in fact immigrants, who usually are either accultured to the host culture, or not the type to be enfatuated with their home culture (coming from a two-time immigrant) and are not represantive of their people.

And religious fanatics tend not to move to a place where they aren't that religion. Go to Valenwood learn what Bosmer culture is like, don't judge by immigrants.

Dont forget the "Cultural Exiles, pariahs, and expelled black sheep"

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:44 pm

I dont want a LOTR clone just everywhere I have looked wood elves are herbivores, friendy, there is no green pact, and they are usually good people not carnivores who eat everything they kill.

That's just imitation Tolkien wood elves. Properly done, high fantasy (and TES is high fantasy) requires not copying Tolkien. Tolkien's wood elves are what they are because they suited his storytelling. TES Bosmer are what they are because they suit the TES developers' universe. Putting Tolkien wood elves into TES would be as meaningless and jarring as, well, Gimli's wisecrack "this dwarf's not for throwing" was in the LOTR movie.

Savage, xenophobic Wood Elves are not unheard of in other high fantasy, either. Take, for example, Warhammer.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:21 am

I dont want a LOTR clone just everywhere I have looked wood elves are herbivores, friendy, there is no green pact, and they are usually good people not carnivores who eat everything they kill.

You seem to think being cannibals and being "good people" are mutually exclusive. Unusual practices do not necessarily mean that other cultures are "evil".

For a real-world example, take the Mayans. The Mayans believed in cyclical time, and that the world ended when the Gods grew week only to begin again in a new cycle. According to some Mesoamerican calendars, the world has gone through six of these cycles. The Mayans believed that, through spilling their own blood, they could empower the gods and postpone or prevent the end of the world. Bloodletting was a daily Mayan ritual, as normal as saying your prayers before bedtime.

Then, human sacrifices. According to some sources, human sacrifices were exalted beyond all others, because they were giving their lives to the gods. Voluntary sacrifice was apparently commonplace. The priests who cut the sacrifices' hearts out weren't murdering anyone - they were performing a religious rite that caused the sacrifice's soul to ascend.

Similarly, cannibalism might be seen as a benevolent act amongst the Bosmer. However, to them it was a sacred rite.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:34 pm

That's just imitation Tolkien wood elves. Properly done, high fantasy (and TES is high fantasy) requires not copying Tolkien. Tolkien's wood elves are what they are because they suited his storytelling. TES Bosmer are what they are because they suit the TES developers' universe. Putting Tolkien wood elves into TES would be as meaningless and jarring as, well, Gimli's wisecrack "this dwarf's not for throwing" was in the LOTR movie.

What are dwarves like in TES or should I say Dwemer. They sounded pretty cool from what I saw. From what I read it sounded like they basically were light skinned elves who were adept at making armor and strongholds and stuff just like in LOTRs except they look nothing alike and arent even short and they were called dwarves by giants that met them so therefore compared to a giant they are dwarves. right?

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:26 pm

What are dwarves like in TES or should I say Dwemer. They sounded pretty cool from what I saw. From what I read it sounded like they basically were light skinned elves who were adept at making armor and strongholds and stuff just like in LOTRs except they look nothing alike and arent even short and they were called dwarves by giants that met them so therefore compared to a giant they are dwarves. right?

The Dwemer were an agnostic race of scientists and mechanists. They were very interested in the metaphysics of the Universe - i.e., how to transcend the mortal realm and reach the "divine". They were styled in http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/dwemer-image.jpgafter the ancient Persians. They were as tall as Dunmer are.

Recommended reading:

http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/
http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/guide.shtml

Recommended playing:

Morrowind

Get your ass on that last one ASAP.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:56 am

The Dwemer were an agnostic race of scientists and mechanists. They were very interested in the metaphysics of the Universe - i.e., how to transcend the mortal realm and reach the "divine". They were styled in http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/dwemer-image.jpgafter the ancient Persians. They were as tall as Dunmer are.

Recommended reading:

http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/
http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/guide.shtml

Recommended playing:

Morrowind

Get your ass on that last one ASAP.

You forget that they were studying metaphysics for ways to REJECT the current world.

(This is counter-intuitive to calling the scientists.)