I always like to try out different builds in these sort of games. In this game, it seems there is just too many crafting perks. 4 ranks in armor, 4 gun nut, 4 science. Through in local leader, hacking and lock picking and you have hardly any room left for more interesting perks!


The game does throw a lot of weapon/armor mods at you. I was thinking of just using what I could find vs crafting your own. However, I am not sure how often you will encounter the higher end mods for good weapons and armor. Same goes with power armor. Can you find power armor mods?


So I would appreciate any tips or feedback in dropping all the crafting perks

That's 4 out of 70. How is that too many?

You can find upgraded power armor in the wasteland. There are also a few special power armor pieces I've come across.

So we're talking a play-through with no perk points in Armorer or Gun Nut? That would free up some points since those are two I feel like I must have.

I think this would be doable and it would give you a reason to pick up about every weapon you find to see if it has a mod you can strip off.

Note however you can't just strip a mod off a weapon, it has to be replaced, so you will have to be able to add the 'standard' mod to take off the upgrade. I suppose after you strip each weapon you can then scrap it also and that will give you the materials needed to make standard mods.

EDIT: I do want to add that I get a lot of EXP from modding weapons and armor, so you'll miss out on all of that.

It would be interesting to do a playthrough using just what you find, I might actually do that. Not to save the perks, but in order to not become overpowered.

Not 4. If you use gun nut, armor and science that is 12. Throw in local leader brings it to 14. Lock pick and hacking are 3 each which brings you to 20. Add in your favorite weapon damage perks and you come to 25.


Just seems like a lot of perks are locked in or standard for every build. And I am not really interested in lvl 70 characters.

Also, it seems you only actually use the weapons/armor crafting once or twice. How many long range night vision scopes do you actually need to build?!


Right now I don't even really look at the

Mods attached to looted guns. Maybe be fun to scrounge around for that upgrade.


And then take a bunch of more flavorful perks, stuff that is interesting.


I am just not too sure about the really good power armor mods. Same goes with energy weapon mods

Lock picking and Hacking are not crafting perks, and now you're talking about points within the perks. In that case there are a lot more than 70.

Perhaps a better title would be too

Many essential perks. It just seems that every build I make has the same standard perks. Crafting, lock picking and a weapon damage perk.


and it seems most people do the same thing. Which is why I think it would be interesting to drop those perks. And try the perks less used.

the question is why not crafting? pipe weapons are practically crafted fro scratch, along with a few others, like molotovs.

Same thing happened to me. First play through I crafted everything to death. In truth I just did way to much crafting and got a tad burned out of it.


Made a meter/explorer character and I'm at level 20 without any crafting perks. Doing just fine.


I'll probably pick up armorer after a while

I think it's a good idea. I'm just having too much fun making things atm, but using existing weapon mods and special (dropped) armor should be completely doable. Not sure what else I'd spend my points on though other than becoming a wasteland nightmare

I admit my first four character's were basically the same regarding Perks up to about level 20. One might use Gunslinger vs. Rifleman vs. Commando, but most the other perks are basically required IMO. I even use a spreadsheet now and basically just change a few perks to differ between PC's. Doing a 'no crafting' PC would mix things up some.

I'm already planning a survivalist run where I only use Pipe guns and no chems. All healing is from stuff I cook. Only armor is raider and metal armor. But he will rely heavily on crafting obviously.

Dude, you made a spreadsheet? That's awesome. Wow, did I really just say that?

I need to seriously look into a Perk Planner or something. There's just so many different things I WANT to try, but never do commit to in game because (reasons).

I'm suddenly very interested in this no-crafting kinda playthrough, except I was planning to do melee, and I just haven't found that many interesting melee weapons. They seem in short supply in comparison to guns.

Does no crafting, for you, exclude taking mods from weapons you've found and upgrading your own weapons?

I think it's a very viable option. Your weapons and armor would be worse overall, but I think that would be balanced by the fact that you'd have all those extra perks to spend on being better with the weapons and armor you could find. Also, given that anybody can remove and replace any existing mods, I could see buying a lot more weapons from vendors just for the mods on them - and suddenly there is a use for caps that has been missing!

The more I think about it, this actually seems like a more natural playstyle than the crafting model. I wonder if perhaps many of us were conditioned by Skyrim to craft, craft, craft and it just carried over into FO4?

The basic version does not require any crafting skills and usually very basic materials as far as I know.

True. My current PC is all Commando, but I've got Cait with me that I'm keeping with Melee weapons. Well I never picked any Blacksmith perks because I don't need it, but I'm also not finding many weapon mods for Cait's melee weapons. I finally got her a Serrated Machete, but that's about it. (I do have a few unique melee weapons (the axe, the tooth, etc.) but I prefer just keeping those in my collection.)

True but you have to prepare for it. More than once I tried to take something off but ran out of that dreaded adhesive that's needed for a standard mod and couldn't do it. Early game of course. Not an issue once you've been looting and farming for a while.

Just remember that if you want to be able to remove nice mods from weapons or armor you find, to reuse on some of your other gear, then you'll have to have at least one point in Gun Nut and/or Armorer, to do so. Most mods can't be removed unless you have the ability to craft a basic-level replacement mod to put back on. I think this is kind of stupid, really- you should be able to remove any mod from any item, and have the remaining item simply be broken down for parts in the process (if you don't replace that mod with a lesser one).

Also, Lockpicking and Hacking aren't crafting perks, and you can make it through the game without putting points in either, I'm pretty sure. I believe Novice level will get you through most of the quest-required locks or hacks. You'll be a lot harder up for ammo and chems and other stuff though, as locked containers and storage rooms contribute huge amounts of those. I'd put at least one point in Lockpicking, as probably 75% of the locks in FO4 can be picked with it only up to Advanced level. But if you stick with Novice level, yer gonna be hurtin'.

As for not putting any points in weapon skills, er, why not? Unlike crafting skills, which would seem secondary to gameplay, the ability to do more damage with your chosen weapon type is a pretty basic, and pretty *important*, thing to do. If your purpose is to greatly weaken your character to make the game much more difficult, then yes, that would be a very, very good way to do just that. When Bethesda took away the skillpoints RPG function which had been used in previous Fallouts as the primary means by which to improve your character's damage output, they replaced it with these weapon-specific perks in FO4. The monsters get tougher and hit harder as you level up, and the main way by which you get tougher and hit harder to keep up with them, is via those weapon buffing perks.

Really? I can't verify this as I always have some points in those as soon as possible. So what happens when you open the weapon and want to add the standard mod? It just pops a message saying you can't do it?

On some of the higher end weapons (Combat Rifle, Assault Rifle, etc.) you may actually need one point in the perks just to add the standard mod. If true that would be a holdup.

I'm pretty sure that's not right. I started a new character within the last week, and I'm sure that I was able to do basic mods on weapons and armor the second I walked out of the Vault. (At least, with the weapons and armor you have access to in the beginning.) As LeBurns says, maybe that's true with some of the later, more powerful weapons...I've never NOT had the Gun Nut points to know.

I think armor mods can all be removed and readded without any points in Armorer, now that I think about it- but you won't be able to do much to upgrade your power armor, if you want to. But weapons mods are a different story. You will be able to make some basic mods with zero points in Gun Nut, but I know for sure that there are a lot of gun mods that you will not be able to remove or reuse without at least one point in it. When you go to remove a mod from a found weapon, it will insist that you replace it with a lesser one that you make yourself, or you just can't do it.

@smokeyman - it is really just to spice up character creation. Too many of my builds are similar with just a few perks switched out. I was looking to try something completely different.


Plus I don't stalk vendors for cool mods or even bother looking mods from loot. It just goes into a chest until I fill like selling them for some ammo.


Not being able to build even the standard mods would be a big road block though. Are you sure about that. I seem to remember the combat rifle and shotgun both allowed some basic crafting with no perks

Yes, having zero points in Gun Nut, you will still be able to create a couple of low level mods for some weapons. But that is very limited, and won't get you very far. As you get up higher, your weapon-modding ability will be very stunted, and not help you very much, until you put a minimum of 1 point into it. But that's just one point, and it ain't gonna kill ya.

Right but we were talking about having to build the "basic" mods when taking off higher level ones from found kit. Like if you want to move a Hardened receiver from one 10mm to another, you'll need at least one standard receiver to replace it. I thought you were saying that we couldn't build that standard receiver without a point in Gun Nut. Is that what you meant?