While sorting out mods for my new Oblivion installation I was going to just Wyre Bash and Oblivion Mod Manager but then I started reading all these great comments about BOSS and now I ?m not so sure on what to use. I remember some mods that required OBMM for installing a new Night eye effect for example and OMODS, but perhaps you can have both BOSS for sorting mods and OBMM for managing the OMODs and such. Im already planning on adding OBSE and Im kind of afraid my PC might blow up, so Im looking to add the best possible compliments for Oblvion but with less programs. Opinions welcome

Personally i use all of them. I use OBMM only for installing omods, BOSS to sort out the load order, and Wrye Bash to manage mods, saves and the bashed patch functionality is essential for making the nearly 200 mods i have to work together. You can even launch both OBMM and BOSS straight from Wrye Bash, so there's really no reason to not use them all.

Wrye Bash: Use it for just about everything.

OBMM: Use it to install/extract-and-convert-for-BAIN OMOD-only mods and install shader-editing mods/OBSE plugins.

BOSS: Use it to automatically sort most, if not all, of your mods.

Three tools, not much. On my gaming machine, I don't even have OBMM, and BOSS is hardly complex, you just run it, and look at the log file and carry out any notes it has.

I use OBMM on my modding setup because it can extract/create BSAs, and it's also going to be quite useful when I get around to do some shader editing, but it's no longer a requirement for people who just play the game IMHO.

I tend to just use OBMM to convert .obmm files into .7z archives so they can be installed by Wrye Bash. OBMM has very poor conflict management.

I use Wrye Bash & Boss

OBMM is on my HD if I need to convert an OMOD over to an archive so I can use Wrye's installer. That's basically only reason it's there anymore.

Here's what I do. I use OBMM to install those larger OMODs with installation options and also for the BSA redirection (the rest I install by hand). I use BOSS to arrange my basic load order, after which I add more mods and sequence all of the rest manually, using Bash. I use Bash to create my Bash Patch and to import a face to some of my new characters.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't use Bash to its fullest potential. The Installers, Screenshots, PM Archive and People tabs are untouched by me. I use almost none of the options in the right-click context menu in the Mods tab. But those few features I do use are mighty essential.

Thanks for all of your responses guys, Yup Im leaning towards just installing all of them and using them for their best functions, I might not include OBMM If I didnt need some of its functions, but then its sounds like Ill be using BOSS a lot. For morrowind I have a lot of programas already (MGE, Wyre Mash, Enchanted Editor, Bain, FPS Optimaizer, plus I tweak the INI like crazy) and sometime I get a bit overhelmed myself, seems it will be a bit easier to manage with Oblivion.

Really all three of them are really helpful. BOSS is the easiest way to organize your load order, with pre-defined master-lists used, but may require some re-organization on your part so that everything works the way you want it. OBMM was the first of the three I used and I find it the most user-friendly and easiest to use, its great for mod-makers and mod users alike because of the BSA archive manipulation uses as well as OMOD packaging which makes mods really easy to install and uninstall. Wrye bash is the cream-of-the-crop, but is not for the faint of heart, be prepared to read quite a bit to understand all the tools and functions, but once you understand how to use it, it becomes an undeniable asset.

For best results, read http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/ The guy who wrote this is an uber-guru, we can all learn some from him.

The Installers tab provides a mod package installer facility. In general purpose, it's much like TimeSlip's OBMM tool, however implementation is somewhat different from OBMM. Relative to OBMM, there are several substantial improvements; [b]however in other ways, it is simpler and less powerful than OBMM[/b].

this written Wrye Bash documentation.
I don't think it's a good idea to swear only by BAIN installation.
Personally I dont use Bash installer (not because I dont like it but because I'm too lazy to learn about it)
and I'm quite comfortable with OMODs only installations...

Wow Tomlong got uber-guru status.

impressive.

To the OP - you are going to find that three programs are not that much (especially when compared to Morrowind). Boss barely counts as a program like OBMM or WB.

The only reason that OBMM may become a relic program is if Wrye Bash handled shaders and OBSE plugins with its installer. Since each does similar things yet each also does separate and discreet things.
You will end up using all three anyway if you want the most functionality.

Fallout 3 has much more overlap as FOMM actually gives more control than BAIN does for looking at replacer conflicts and deciding what should win where.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/page__p__15797987__fromsearch__1&#entry15797987. but not to take uber-guru status away from those who deserve it more than I.

Thanks for the linky Pysmon Im aware that eventualy the BAIN solution might be the best way to go, but honestly I dont employ all that many mods, and Im not the type to try out many mods and then take em away latter. I might be a bit crazy but I like to have like a list of my must have mods plus a couple of new ones for a year or two and then do complete reinstall when I find many things that might make me want to install the game again. It has worked quite well for me for Morrowind for close to 8 years and it takes me an afternoon to have everything running.

Like I said you will end using all three anyway.

With BAIN though you can convert the mods to it and have them ready to use at anytime in the future for any playthrough again.

I use all three because I have to - just like everyone else.

Yeah, but she also got demoted to "guy" status, so it evens out a bit.

Anyway Psymon thank you for your guide; its rather amazing, and you are correct perhaps Ill try it first with a small body mod Ive been dying to try but if it doesnt work out I cant take out easily the THEC body that has little to no support but its magnificent

Your real choice is not which to use because you will really need both OBMM and BAIN/WB - the choice is actually which to use more exclusively. My choice is obvious in that I use BAIN exclusively with OBMM as support.If BAIN is not daunting and you are not adding much then why not? You will be pleased to find that it is there for Morrowind and Fallout too.

Body mods are the most complicated things to install. I swear I wish I could repackage them myself.

Search through my threads you will find a Roberts 4 BAIN template. For females get EVE it is already BAIN ready.

I've seen this thought expressed many times, and I genuinely don't understand it. I am not trying to be snarky at all, I promise- I honestly don't understand why so many people have trouble installing body mods.


Psymon, can you help me understand this? I get a lot of PMs from people needing help, here and on other forums I haunt, and I'd like to be able to "get it" more than I do.

"Uberguru" probably doesn't even make up for the demotion

EVE HGEC is dead easy, just a few choices.

Roberts v5 is fairly complex...if you want any non-standard choices you need to move a lot of stuff around.

If you are used to manual install and read each readme carefully you will have no problem.

those that use installers will have a different experience as the only way to access most body mods options is manually.

With better packaging all can be resolved - especially with BAIN as you can have alternate replacers that lay in and can be annealed in and out by a few clicks. But then that means converting them to that packaging which is time consuming. This post has my Roberts 4 template. as you can see there are many options in that mod - most of which are natively only accessible by manual install.

People take to installers for various reasons and I suppose I still believe that OBMM does not encourage thinking about manual install needs and therefore users of it prefer not to think about those things (broad generalization that will never garner me an uber anything title).
I prefer BAIN because it shows me what I'm doing in terms of manual installing (no black box installing) and I can adjust accordingly and automatically.

As for conversions body mods remain one of the most disagreeable things to tackle.

off to work - later.

I have to be honest- I didn't find Rob 5 hard to install at all, though I've assisted many of my friends here with their installations of it, mainly due to wanting non-default options, as you mention. But I do have to consider that I mod myself, and am used to snooping around with Nifskope and installing stuff manually. So therein is my answer, most likely.

Anyway...Cabron, I think my Oblivion utility arsenal is much more streamlined than my Morrowind one. I use OBMM and Bash- that's it. As where in MW? I use Mash, Enchanted Editor, TES Tool, MGE, the MW Animation Kit, and a couple of others I can't recall in my late afternoon haze.


edit: And now I see Psymon's reply. Thanks. It pretty much confirms my thoughts.

Just to drive the point home ... A veteran manual/by-hand installer will always be able to handle more than those who are used to being pampered by installers.

I started of with manual installing and only really turned to OBMM to make it easier for uninstall.

BAIN is that mid point - it shows you what you are installing and illustrates what the conflcits are in a meaningful way. It automates manual installation.

There is a wizard in development for it but likely I will stick to doing the packaging by hand due to the want to check mod replacer structure, clean mods, etc. I do need to read up on the wizard though.

To me the difficulty or ease of mod installation is related to the manner of packaging. They are two sides of the same coin. If a mod is obtusely and annoyingly packaged so that even manual install is laborious then that will likely be more so with an installer involved. Morrowind mods being a shining example - why it ever became practice to package a mod three directories up from the main game directory or to hide content buried way down in the replacer folders so that a default install leads to junk floating around in the data folder is beyond me.

And I've more than once stated that many popular mods that are not packaged well are the threads with endless 'how do I get this to work' questions that and "this doesn't work.'

:rofl:

Anyway, my suggestion to anyone using at least a few Oblivion mods is to give BAIN installation a good, honest try. Because, if it suits (i.e., if it works, or IOW, if research and perseverance are applied as needed) it will inevitably prove to be the *least* troublesome method. By far.

err... oops! lol. Sorry. :facepalm:

Of course there are other people who know a lot about installing mods... I just haven't found their webpages yet... :nope:

Truth be told, I've never touched Wrye Bash. I've read a lot of positive comments about it, especially how it has "so many good functionalities"

But still, I'm a bit confused, because unlike manual and omod installation, there seem to be a lot of things to do to install a mod aside from a few file moving and esp ticking. So far, I install OMOD ready mods by OBMM and others by manual install, after that I sort them out with BOSS. It works well, is there something in Wrye Bash that I miss?