According to the "rules" of the House Telvanni, there are no rules other than might makes right.

"If you steal from another Telvanni, but still live, then clearly you deserve whatever you stole. Murdering your opponents by magic or treachery is the traditional way of settling disputes. If you win, then clearly your argument has more merit. You may be expelled as in any other Great House, but most Telvanni will not care or even know about it."

Sounds great on paper, but it was not implemented that way in the game. I tried to complete a quest by murdering an opponent and I succeeded but was still expelled from the house and everyone seemed to notice. Could not advance further without paying to make amends.

Would have been a much better game if House Telvanni actually lived up to the hype of being a cutthroat organization with no rules. I wonder why they did not implement it as described in the game?

I wonder which quest are you doing? Maybe there is special request in it. And also they say "by magic", so if you did it in weapon it would be a problem I guess?

And I think it is just some general game mechanism to expel you from the guild or house if you murder someone.

I can't remember which quest. It was a while back. But i do remember it was by magic. That character did not use weapons. I am on another play through and heard the rules again and had to laugh.

I agree it is just a general game mechanic. But with rules like those they should have programmed in an exception for House Telvanni, so that being expelled had no effect on being able to receive house services or quests, other than perhaps an effect on disposition (which could be overcome by yet more magic).

I'm not sure about murder, but in terms of stealing my experience has been that House Telvanni really doesn't care... as long as you don't get caught. As Telvannis, my characters have been able to steal from other Telvannis with no issues whatsoever. I've had to be a lot more careful about what I stole and from whom when playing as a Hlaalu or a Redoran. As for expulsion, I've never managed to get myself expelled from House Telvanni, so I don't have a clue if the other Telvannis care about that or not.

Still, by and large, my in-game experiences have pretty closely mirrored the rules you quoted in your post. Playing as Redoran or Hlaalu, I always feel like the other House members are watching what I do, sometimes very closely. Playing as Telvanni, well... it really kind of feels like you're on your own, the one exception being Master Aryon... sort of!

I don't remember the last time I was kicked out of House Telvanni. I have two eccentric Telvanni mage-lord characters that could occasionally murder someone who couldn't find what I told them to find (Antares' mod) or who constantly got on my way in a corridor... Nothing. Life goes on as usual in the House of Telvanni.

Also, if I steal something, NPCs nearby attack me. Yet I'm still not expelled from the house.

Maybe you've murdered wrong people?

Archmagister Nelacayne, you're "spoiler" above is spot on! I've had the exact same thought regarding that robe, and have carried it out! Hmmm... now that I think of it killing Neloth did not get me expelled when I did that... but, I can't remember the particulars. It may be that I taunted the mightier-than-thou wizard into fighting, which would clearly avoid expulsion from the House... hmmm....

And yes, of course you are right; I haven't been murdering the right people! I've got some work to do! [grabs trusty Black Hands Dagger and heads for the door!]

Yeah, I use Taunt sometimes as well, but I clearly remember murdering and getting away with it. It could also be that every NPC just doesn't report my crime, and there are no other NPCs in sight, so I just get away with it. That could be the case with many Bosmer around Neloth's tower, for instance. I've killed at least two of them with my Master Delunar. Only one kill was quest-related.

Bosmer... pshaw! What do they think they're doing in House Telvanni anyway?

Yeah, about that... one of my Telvannis is a Bosmer.

Oh, to heck with it! What are they doing in House Telvanni? Kill them all!

But more seriously, yeah, some of those Wood Elves are indeed a few of the Telvanni victims I have dispatched, without consequence, while playing as a Telvanni. Honestly, in the relatively short time I have been playing Morrowind, I have really hit House Telvanni hard... out of six playthroughs, four were Telvanni characters, one was a Redoran, and one was a Hlaalu. I just find the Telvanni so appealing, and for so many reasons. I suppose I would do well to try the other Houses more, just so I could appreciate the subtle (or not so subtle) differences between the three. I just enjoy the Telvanni so much, it's hard not to pick them each and every time!

Interesting post, Archmagister... I was focused on the humor at first, but now you've really got me thinking!

I find it odd that the Telvanni operate exactly like the Dovah do. Coincidence?

I'd think so. Haven't played Dragonborn yet, though, so I don't know if there are some clues supporting that.

@vegtabill, my namesake is an Altmer, so I'm not much to argue who should and shouldn't belong to a Dunmer Great House, am I? D: Anyways, still far better and in every way superior to *hmph* a Bosmer...

Isn't "Sorcerer" the nice word for a mage that can't do [censored] himself, but who just has so good equipment that he becomes overpowered because of that? Well, in that case, Nelacayne is one heck of a Sorcerer, although he would never admit it... Possibly one of the worst actual spellcasters in the House... He's constantly on the tip of his toes so that no-one could notice he's not actually much of a caster at all...

Anyway, I couldn't play a serious Telvanni character who's not a wizard. I.e., whenever I play a non-wizard, I end up joining some other House but Telvanni. You should try it more often as well!

Have you been to Tel Mora? It's full of Bosmer! They flock to House House Telvanni, probably because the House doesn't demand fealty.

Anyway, I think you get expelled complete with the disposition penalty just because it's difficult to avoid that using game mechanics, but getting reinstated is free, painless and can be done over and over. The Imperial law enforcement is another matter though.

Mm'm. Plus I think the name Tel Mora 'Forest Tower' attracts them. And maybe most of the Telvanni Bosmer just happen to be female. If so, that's definitely a place to go... But not otherwise.

I've also wondered about the Bosmer in House Telvanni

Thought it might be that they like the mushroom houses and maybe Telvanni rules appeal to them, or maybe it's just a case of "I don't get by very well here in Valenwood and my cousin went to Vvardenfell to join the Telvanni and he's making a good profit; maybe I should do that too". Or maybe they are on the run from the law in their homeland and Telvanni attitude of not caring appeals to them.

I'd really like to hear one of the devs explain what their thoughts were.

Somewhere in-game, an NPC talks about how there are many Bosmer and Altmer in House Telvanni. My brain is failing on me right now... I can't recall which NPC was talking about it, but I swear I just heard this line in the last few days... I'll dig a little and see if I can find it.

Bosmer and Bretons actually, although a lot of the Bretons are in the Velothi towers. The same is said for Altmer and Nords in House Redoran and Imperials and Redguards in House Hlaalu. It was one of the "Morrowind lore" pieces. Unless you're talking about what Fast Eddie says in one of the LGNPC mods. I suppose these Altmeri Redoran and Redguard Hlaalu mercenaries must be on the mainland.

Definitely not LGNPC... I've never used it. Which Morrowind lore piece are you referring to? I'd like to have a look... Just from playing the game, I know there are many Bosmer retainers in the Telvanni towers, and the towns that surround them. I can think of a few Altmer... but I'm struggling to think of any Bretons. I know that many of the NPCs you run into in dungeons and Daedric ruins have Great House affiliations... maybe some of those Bretons are Telvanni? I'll check the UESP Wiki next...

EDIT: Ah yes, I see http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:House_Telvanni... There are indeed a number of Telvanni Bretons in the Velothi Towers in the wilderness, just as you said. Still, there are almost none in the council members' Towers and towns. I wonder why that is?

SECOND EDIT: OK, nevermind the lore... I just found this in the dialogue in the CS:

That definitely backs up what you were saying. The line is spoken by bards, booksellers, and savants. Still, I wonder why (Telvanni) Bretons are so scarce in Sadrith Mora, Tel Branora, Tel Mora, Tel Vos, and Tel Aruhn?

Paying who? The councillors/mouths will clear expulsion without any cost (just talk about making amends) - unless a mod messes that up for you. It could have been implemented differently - but that would require coding a lot of things differently (and Morrowind's engine is far from perfect as it is).

Now that I did not know. They charge you 500 drakes to get back into Hlallu. I think I reloaded my save after getting expelled from Telvanni and learning that no one would interact with me. If you can get back in without paying but just visiting a mouth then maybe the aren't too many rules in the House Telvanni after all.

I suppose making it free to make amends was an easy way for them to deal with the expulsion game play mechanic.

I am planning on doing another Telvanni play through after the next update to Ulviriths Legacy. My first play through of that house was vanilla (on Xbox). I am looking forward to doing it with UL and RoHT. Thanks everyone for the good info on Telvanni. It has restored my faith in the game to learn that the House Telvanni "rules" were actually implemented into the game.

I think I remembered who I killed. It was that bat [censored] crazy councilor Therana who no one liked, after she attacked me during a quest.

There aren't - as I said, it doesn't cost you anything and (unlike most other factions) you can do it as often you like. Of course if you eliminate all the mouths and councillors you can't get reinstated - but why would you do that?

Yeah, I'm not sure how would they even go and implement that - after all, items can be assigned either to a faction or to an npc and the game doesn't have a way of detecting anything more.

Add BuUL and LGNPC Tel Uvirith to the mix for an ever funner game.

You might want to keep her around if you're goint to play RoHT

That definitely backs up what you were saying. The line is spoken by bards, booksellers, and savants. Still, I wonder why (Telvanni) Bretons are so scarce in Sadrith Mora, Tel Branora, Tel Mora, Tel Vos, and Tel Aruhn?