Cracking person and gaining info that can save hundreds of lives is evil?
And I am not talking about crude bloody beating up and crippling.
For example remember "1984"? What was that last thing that made Winston break?
Pain? Misery? Loneliness? No, fear of rats. Not even exposing to them, but simply threatening with them.
Simple yet effective method to make person cooperate, is to find its fears and use them against him.

Now now, were not playing Splinter Cell here... None of that.

Yes.
Torturing one person for info that may save lives is evil.
Laws that state torture isnt torture or that allow the use of certain forms of torture are evil and it is every citizens duty to disobey an unjust law.
People that torture people are always doing an evil deed, though they might not be evil people.

There really is no shading here, no grey, no middle ground.
An empathically able human being cannot commit such an act without objectifying their victim and are as such commiting an evil act.

I feel like im going to enjoy asking you this question.

Would you personally kill 10 innocent people if it would save 100 people?

So lets presume that your friends and comrades are under danger and the only way to save them is break an enemy and force him to speak.
I don't know about you, but if lives of my friends were at stake, I would do what ever it takes to make the source of info speak.
It's not about black, white or gray, it is about necessary things that needs to be done.




Depends, Sometimes 10 lives are more valuable then 100 people

Why did this Thread turn into a Moral/Political debate?

It would still be an evil act.
You are justifying it by including your friends in the hypothtical, people you know and that you care about.
You are basically making a divide between them and the 'evil do-ers' who presumably are less 'real'. You are objectifying.
But 'the enemy' is also a human, he also has hopes and dreams, feelings, and is possibly just as good a father and husband as your friend.
10 lives are only more valuable than 100 if you somehow think that those 100 lives arent really people at all, because you have no emotional bond with them.

Yes, he has commited an evil act.
But saying that his evil act justifies yours would be going back about 6000 years morally, to the eye for an eye style of justice.
And we have surely moved on from that.

I would encourage you to read in particular Foucault, but also Kierkegaard and Sartre and 'Small Gods', by Terry Pratchett.
The last one mostly because everyone should read that book.

GOOD GOD, i think i love you, we share THE SAME THOUGHTS, AND you like Terry Pratchett! :goodjob:
His book small Gods is an excellent example, but then again everything he writes is good.
You by far the best person on this blog site now :foodndrink:

Torture? Yes!
Makes being evil more fun

Now you're talking about killing people to save others?

How is that right man? Torturing... Killing... Not matter how you look at it, you cannot justify it.

Yes he may have hopes and dreams but those 10 people will kill many more if you don't torture them and will kill 100 people.They may also have hope and dreams but that dosen't change the fact they will kill many more people if you don't torture the information out of them.

Where would our country be now if we never tortured anyone?Maybe the U.K would still have control over us.Maybe we would have been conquered by a enemy nation or maybe we would have dieded in thermonucelar war or maybe hitler would have won the war,my point is the good out-shines the evil in this situation.

You have such a naive few on these things.Killing is justifiable you most likely would be dead if information wasn't extracted out of people,if brave people didn't kill and die for you.Killing can be justified if it's to protect innocent people from murder.

Think of it like this.... What if you were in the group of 10 that would be tortured, is it still that easy to say let them be tortured?

True Dat

Not at all. I understand that person on other side of barrel or blade is unique person with some good traits. He is maybe good to his parents and friends. He may be good poet and appreciate classical music and so on. Who know maybe he even can cook up best apple pie.
But in the middle of fight you start to think about it you'll end up with few new holes.
And regarding enemies, If you lay down arms, some will do the same, but most will rejoice and kick your ass, because some want your job, some your money, some your status, some your dignity, but some simply want to suppress you and feel power over you.

P.S. I enjoy good book or conversation, but in most cases I don't need ideas of other people to evaluate situations

Yes. I would try to prevent it yes but I understand why the opposing force is doing it and respect their cause and reason to wish to prevent whatever I am trying to do.



No not "true dat" killing can be justified.

So your saying that when the U.N soldiers killed high ranking nazi officers that isn't justified?Your saying when Osama Binladen was killed that wasn't justified?Your saying when Criminals who killed innocent people and children are executed that isn't justified?See the major flaw in your logic now?

OMFG with the white knights.

Seriously guys it's called story and narrative; read some A Song of Ice and Fire.

Everything is permissible for it already happens IRL and take in the time line this world is in, a very barbaric medieval esq world.... violence and human depravity is a must.

I dont want the witcher 2 to be the only mature RPG.

Also morality is not absolute but perspective; the only thing that matters at the end of the day is who wins (aka writes the history).


Also who cares if it's moral let the player decide that; STORY AND NARRATIVE BRO's.

No, but I do see it in yours. You have some type of eye for an eye mentality, which in your mind you think is okay. There's no reasoning with you, you're mind is set. Anyway, I'm out of this thread, it's pointless arguing about such things with such people.

No im a realist and obviously your view is clouded with pre-concieved views of "right" and "wrong".

But before you leave let me ask you one questions.
Do you honestly believe that the world is a place where we can limit ourselves to right and wrong?Where in a time of life or death and one man has the information to save millions that you can simply not torture him for the information?If you do I hope you have a good life in your fake world you have we have created but it dosen't change the fact,war is when we must dismiss our beliefs of right and wrong for if we do not act first,we will not be able to act last

I've never had the itch to torture anyone for any reason.... I think you should sit in your little dark room and contemplate.

You're also just a little pale boy on a computer. You mustn't worry yourself with such things; maybe you should find a hobby such as knitting. I know a guy who started knitting, and now he doesn't mastvrbate in public anymore.

Assuming things now eh?By the way the photo is edited fyi.

But what you think of me dosen't change that believing torture is evil and musn't be used is like believing in world peace.Idealogical,naive,illogical and for those who cannot accept the truth.

You obviously dont understand the concepts of emotional impact, or the time the game takes place (culture/tech similar to medieval europe) violence is a must.

who cares if its evil or good.

I dont i just want a game with some flesh on it, let the player choose.

Also if torturing one person saves 500 million is it worth or should we let those 500 million die

You people really creep me out sometimes.

I do not believe that we can limit ourselves as a species to right and wrong, but I would hope that most people are enlightened enough to realise that there can be no justification for murder or torture.
I do not believe that there has ever in the history of the species existed a situation where the torture of one man is 'neccesary to save an untold amount of lives.'
I believe that is in itself a lie, or at least a convenient bending of reality to justify what can be described no other than an evil act.

I am a highly moral person and I do not think I live in a fantasy world.
I live, in fact, in a mind quite devoid of the little lies people tell themselves. I dont 'close the curtains to keep the dark out.' I dont 'believe it will all turn out right in the end.' I am in fact not supersticious, but substicious.

I believe that the type of rhetoric you print is all too familiar, and has not really changed since the dawn of time.
It is fallacious logic based on the premise that us is 'the real humans' and the rest 'is the enemy'.
Acting first so you wont have to act last? The morality of a five year old. I did advice to read up on philosophy for a reason.
I would hope that an educated and civilised person would treat such an utterance only with the scorn it deserves, rather than embrace it as some sort of truth from upon high.

No. Torture is not justified because 'you are on the right side'.
That is a very slippery slope, mainly because it is impossible to decide who is 'on the right side', as the whole division is illusory in itself.