One of the most respected people in Skyrim if not the very most respected, and pretty much the sole people that are able to teach others the Thu'um in the first place, that's who.

Tell that to the Spartans, who recruited children themselves, and they did so for the purpose of becoming soldiers for contry, not monks of enlightenment and worship. Your looking at that from a modern perspective instead of seeing it how it should be looked at. You still haven't proved btw that they forced him to join.

Yet again, The Imperials themselves are planning to re-war with the Thalmor soon, and I don't see them killing kings to send messages. He didn't have true need. He could have just as easily killed him with sword only anyways.

That's like saying that the only way to success in life would be doing nothing, or that the only way to become rich would be to spend no money.

The Greybeards are welcome to preach their philosophy. I even think they represent an important corrective to remind people not to use the thu'um unwisely, something that Ulfric himself agrees with. But they don't own the thu'um.

They may have done just that, only the "civilized" way is to send an assassin to do it in the shadows.

Because I generally agree so there's not much to say.

This is an instant of where the modern look is necessary, because it highlights a fundamental truth about children: They are incapable of making such decisions. You are holding someone to an oath they had no say in. That they later break that oath, what does that have to do with anything? What we see is that when Ulfric was older he chose to abandon the Greybeards. That is the choice he made for himself. How is that not a more valid position than an oath taken before he could make that decision?

In the End, Ulfric seems to be trying to save Skyrim from itself. The true nords were lost in the days of Talos the man. time to let it go.

And here I was reading my post thinking "did I say something bad?"

I disagree. They are currently the only people in skyrim that we see even able to teach the thu'um so honestly they pretty much do own it. If Kyne thinks the purpose of the voice she gave is being misused then she better start speaking up.

All the other Grey-Beards made the same oath as children and they had zero problems in sticking with that oath. Saying he was a child is just excusing his actions. I don't see it as valid.

Which is exactly why I'm saying they need to change things or they can expect the same results as last time. Thanks for illustrating my point.


This is just petty tit for tat and we should be beyond that, those diehards of us who are still hanging around this forum discussing such things.

"Don't worry, the legion will save us!" is a much better philosophy.

Ulfric emerges as a leader... the dragonborn appears... Maybe she is.