Well...if you adhere to the theory that stones can be conscious beings, like Uriel Septim + Amulet of Kings, or the Mane and whatever artifact he may posses, it seems reasonable that the Heart has a mind of its own, and is perhaps the remaining conscious aspect of Lorkhan. Perhaps it chose to relocate or hide itself once the profane Dwemer enchantments were removed.

(Of course this doesn't explain how Lorkhan manifested himself as beings like Pelinal Whitestrake during the time period the Heart was bound by enchantments. Perhaps these beings were more long-range telepathic projections of his will than anything else. Perhaps he's been working to free himself by using avatars and their servants for all these years - that doesn't explain why he would purposely allow the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion to weaken to the extent Dagon invades his realm however.)

The Heart is still imprisoned. I'll remind the esteemed Do'Gaja, tick-picker of late the Mane, the Deep Elves were not the first to imprison the tempo of Doom (haha). Eleven deeper enchantments yet restrain the Void Ghost from partaking in the Thirteen Course Meal of Big Cataclysms (for he must eat himself, too). Beware, the Underking liv-urgh-ooh blehh!!! [arrow to the neck scream of agony]

Hide - well maybe felt in need of a vacation in a sunny climate ... pictures heart lolling in recliner on tropical beach with iced confections and drinkies ^^

I'm thinking that Pelinal came from an as yet unexplored time in the future - so he was originated / supported or however from that time

- also he is said to be a form of composite being ... lol I suppose Lorkhan would be if he manages to reconstitute himself

that reminds me of the old claim that everyone on the planet likely has at least one atom from Julius Caesar by now ...

Yokuda had one and it was somehow involved in the place's destruction. It is also implied that Pyandonea has one.

Pyandonea doesn't, unless I'm mistaken. It hasn't been recorded, and they're simply an offshoot of the Altmer, not Aldmer. They missed their window to build their own. Also, their adherence to the Snake God tells me Tower building isn't their thing (Satakal > tower theory).

would that connect with the starsign charts - there is a serpent constellation in the Morrowind one

Im sorry, what do you mean about "they missed their window"? and Satakal-Tower?

Before it as ripped out of Lorkhan, gods walked Nirn. There must be the presance of an Et'Ada somewere on Nirn, otherwise the 'grey maybe' would be absorbed back into the realms of Padhome and Anu

"they're simply an offshoot of the Altmer, not Aldmer. They missed their window to build their own."
So they were building Crystal tower with the Altmer, later they broke away.

"Also, their adherence to the Snake God tells me Tower building isn't their thing (Satakal > tower theory)."
Rather than spreading creation or transcending it, they revere the cycle that destroys it.

"The Maormer were likely separated from the ancient Aldmer not in Summerset, but in their original homeland of Aldmeris."
Of course, Aldmeris is a myth, which simply means that they split off before the Altmer became the Altmer.

Also, just because they worship a Snake God doesn't mean that they worship the Redguard's snake god.

:turtle:

Ok. Either way, they don't have a tower in the mists.

Their late king was Satakal incarnate.

Is it at all possible that the statue is merely a symbol of some larger working of Akatosh? If lowly Kagrenac is proficient enough to cast enchantments on something so much grander than he as the heart of Lorkhan, it stands to reason that Akatosh can work his will on the Mundus without a special rock. I see the vulnerability in my idea, though, in that special rocks seem to be quite important in TES lore.

Off-topic, that made me think of Tolkein's Ring of Power, in the section in the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring where the narrator details the ring's agenda and sentience.

I'm not sure that Kagrenac's enchantments would have inhibited Lorkhan's actions. The Heart is obviously a tremendous source of power, as Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal drawing on its power have no (noticeable) effect on its normal functions; I can only assume that they were doing was more akin to taking a bucket of water out of a strong river than damming the river and diverting the runoff.

Disclaimer: one of my first forays into Lore. I'm ignorant to quite a bit of what seems to be rather common knowledge among the posters here. In other words, I may be flat-out wrong, and in such case, ignore me.

Says what? Nu-Hatta doesn't limit the towers to just the ones that he mentions by name, even says that there are more. One would think Pyandonea would be a good place to hide at least one of those.

:turtle:

Ok, its possible they have one, but what of it? For all intents and purposes, there isn't one on Pyandonea. Furthermore, we ain't goin to Pyandonea, so unless the tower that isn't walks, crawls, drills, or swims out of the mists, it'll never serve a function in the conspiracy. To go unnamed is as good as not existing.

Besides, everyone knows that the mists are simply for hiding their porm stash.

Where do we get this, and is there more of it? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees

And this is how I got the implication: Given that the fragments only cover places that Topal went to that were or will be Towers, and given that a straight North-East shot from Crystal takes you to the site of Zero Tower, I inference that these waystones went towards Towers or at least the same mythic power that chose their construction sites. Again, North-west(ish) from Crystal takes you past Thras to Yokuda, and South takes you to Pyandonea. We know Yokuda already has/will have a Tower there. What's stopping Pyandonea?

And finally, Orichalc and Zero and Walk-Brass aren't part of this conspiracy. Walk-Brass is really only a foot-note on why there is a Ninth Divine, a Necromancer's moon, and no dwarves. Zero and Direnni stopped doing anything a long time ago, and Orichalc has about the same potency as a potential tower in Pyandonea. Why are they important? Because knowledge for knowledge's sake is important. Unfortunately.

Hmm, I wonder, could Yokuda's Tower also have been involved in the continent's creation? I mean, if its loss caused the continent to sink, perhaps it was simply reverting.

np

Why Lowly - Kagrenac created a God ... mostly And it may be that his tools are catalysts - tiny but with significant effect

How would you know the effect on it's normal functions when we have yet to fully understand what its functions were? That's why my questioning as to its possible intelligence and what it can do ...

About the snakes being destructive - it may be. Or it may be that what one race thinks is destructive another lot sees as positive creation?

I've seen this stated before but never known its source? I was under the impression that the Ansei blew up Yokuda, towers aside.

It wouldn't be unheard of.

:turtle:

It seems more likely that the Ansei destroyed the tower or it's stone, thus undoing Yokuda. Not to mention it would explain how they survived.

Edit: BTW, what does the turtle emoticon mean?

Wouldn't that be adding an unnecessary element? I mean, if the destruction of Yokuda can be explained by just saying that they blew it up, and if nothing directly suggests that a tower was involved, then why add the tower in as an insignificant intermediary between the blowing up and the destruction?

Why do they have to have blown up the tower to have blown up the island? The question here of course is not whether the tower was blown up (that's a separate question), but whether the Ansei were directly the cause of the destruction or whether they were indirectly the cause by having blown up the tower. Ie, did they blow up Yokuda, or did they blow up the tower which then caused Yokuda to sink? Personally, I see no reason for adding the tower to the equation.

It is evil, pure and simple, quite possibly in league with the penguins, but of this I cannot be sure. Suffice to say that it will not let me leave, guarding the exit as a cruel slavemaster. It will be destroyed eventually, but who knows when eventually will come... so far it has shown itself impervious to bullets, knives, nuclear explosions and wooden sticks.

:turtle:

You do realize the force that it would take to sink an entire continent and the effects it would have on the rest of Nirn, right? As I recall, when Red Mountain exploded and created Vvardenfell, a small portion of Tamriel was knocked into the sea, and it was accompanied by a documented nuclear winter lasting at least a year. Not to mention such an event would have killed most, if not all, of the Redguards, and those that survived would have had little idea on what had happened. It seems more likely it sank.

And I never said anything about anything getting blown up. Being a Tower, Orichalc could, in theory, either be destroyed by knocking down the physical structure, or by destroying the stone empowering it. To be honest, I'm not completely sure where its supposed destruction is documented, although given it is usually accepted as fact, perhaps someone else could show where in Lore Orichalc is destroyed.

"The Maormer ruler is King Orgnum, a deathless wizard who is said to be the Serpent God of the Satakal."

Read it how you like. No, it has nothing to do with BATW, it has more to do with occam's razor. I see the light, so to speak, but I have my doubt.


http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20231

Uh, I don't think that's actual lore, that's just TR. No offense to the people at TR, of course.

Well, I think its safe to say that the event did kill most, if not all, of the Redguards, and those that survived had only a little idea what had happened. If I recall, Yokuda was supposed to be bigger than the Empire of Septim, and given that its only a handful of islands now I think its safe to say that most of the Redguards died.

You might not have said anything about it, but the sources do.
"You would destroy the home of your ancestors even more? And in the fashion that they had done, which is now forbidden in your hands?" http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/viveccyrus.shtml. I imagine this refers to the "Hammer and the Anvil" referenced in the http://www.imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b105_alt_redguard.shtml, and even if its not referencing that, it still says that Yokuda was destroyed by a nuclear sword-trick, something that doesn't involve by necessity adding the tower into the equation.

:turtle:

Forgive me if I'm skeptical, but I have suspicions that Redguard legends of Yokuda and the abilities of their ancestors were exaggerated. As I said before, there isn't much evidence for a giant continent-sinking nuclear explosion.