Traditional armor used in Hammerfell?

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:31 am

I just wanted to know if they preferred light or heavy armor. Thanks in advance.
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D IV
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:46 am

I'd imagine, living in the desert, they'd prefer light.
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A Dardzz
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 3:01 am

I'd imagine, living in the desert, they'd prefer light.

True, but the one's in the cities and going out to war outside of their province would likely be very capable with heavy armor. In Morrowind redguards had an endurance bonus which governs medium and heavy amor. They also had a +5 bonus for both medium and heavy armor, so I'd say that they do like heavy armor quite a bit.
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Judy Lynch
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:05 pm

I'd imagine, living in the desert, they'd prefer light.
Yes but not all of Hammerfell is a desert right?
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Steven Hardman
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 12:09 pm

They would most likely prefer medium but that doesn't exist anymore so I would just call it light armor. But that's me. We don't really have all that much info on them anymore in terms of what they specifically wear. But they are usually portrayed in medium looking armors like chainmail or scalemail. Best I could find was this. http://images.uesp.net/7/73/Lore-people-Frandar_Hunding.jpg looks like something a Dunmer would wear but it is a sword singer supposedly named Frandur Hunding. He was kind of a big deal....

I feel like they would favor cloth inlaid with scale/chain mail armors but that is the best I got. They seem like they prefer no armor when operating as individuals. As far as actual armor that they are known for...well maybe legion armor for one as they were a big help to the legion for many years.
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Eoh
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:16 pm

Mail and scale armour is not light armour in real life terms. But I guess we're working in videogame logic here :biggrin:

Anyways, real life cultures that I would think are similar to Redguards would be Mamlukes, Ayyubids, Seljuks, the various Persian dynasties,... They all had their elite troops covered from head to toe in heavy mail, lamellar and so on.
It's pretty easy to do a google image search and get dozens of examples of what such soldiers would wear.
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Logan Greenwood
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:46 pm

Most likely they use a combination of light or medium armor with various clothing attached to certain areas to allow breathing in the hot temperatures. From what we know about some Redguard warriors is that they wear clothing with their armor or that a lot of Al'akir wear clothing in favor of armor.
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Angel Torres
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:09 am

Mail and scale armour is not light armour in real life terms. But I guess we're working in videogame logic here :biggrin:

Anyways, real life cultures that I would think are similar to Redguards would be Mamlukes, Ayyubids, Seljuks, the various Persian dynasties,... They all had their elite troops covered from head to toe in heavy mail, lamellar and so on.
It's pretty easy to do a google image search and get dozens of examples of what such soldiers would wear.
I know lol but I was classifying under bethesdas logic. I would prefer to call them a more middle range armor type.
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:04 am

I just wanted to know if they preferred light or heavy armor. Thanks in advance.

back in Oblivion I think they valued heavy the most, but on Skyrim Bethesda have changed all the racial stats so who knows? I haven't studied the new stats. I did breifly look them over.

Nords used to favor heavy armor, now they are better with light???!!
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Ronald
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 3:58 am

They'd go for light, and if you want an idea on what it may look like, check out the outfits of soliders in 16th century Africa and Middle East. Lots of loose fabric with metal scales or reinforced leather. You'd be a broiled pig in a metal suit.
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dell
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:08 am

They'd go for light, and if you want an idea on what it may look like, check out the outfits of soliders in 16th century Africa and Middle East. Lots of loose fabric with metal scales or reinforced leather. You'd be a broiled pig in a metal suit.
That's mostly myth, there's no shortage of heavily armoured cavalrymen and elite troops in the Middle East and North Africa.
The entire concept of a rider covered head to toe in iron or steel was even a Persian invention, and the Mamluks and Ottomans were certainly no stranger to it either.

Just to illustrate: Mamluk cavalry armour from 1550:
Spoiler
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Ottoman_Mamluk_horseman_circa_1550.jpg[/img]

Low grade soldiers wearing mostly lighter forms of armour is usually a matter of cost, not because they didn't want to wear it.
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Micah Judaeah
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 3:57 pm

That's mostly myth, there's no shortage of heavily armoured cavalrymen and elite troops in the Middle East and North Africa.
The entire concept of a rider covered head to toe in iron or steel was even a Persian invention, and the Mamluks and Ottomans were certainly no stranger to it either.

Just to illustrate: Mamluk cavalry armour from 1550:
Spoiler
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Ottoman_Mamluk_horseman_circa_1550.jpg[/img]

Low grade soldiers wearing mostly lighter forms of armour is usually a matter of cost, not because they didn't want to wear it.

Hmm, true. Granted, I think Turkey is a bit more mild than Hammerfell which sounds more like Morocco or Ghana, but I can definitely see heavy Raga Da soldiers fighting in something like that. It's not the armor material that's the problem really, it's how it can breathe in the heat. Considering that Redguards are used to life on the desert, they probably don't have to worry about that.
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Luis Reyma
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:22 am

I always imagined Hammerfell as Tamriel's version of North Africa (coastal forests, rocky and desolate mountains, arid badlands/Savannah, and vast dunes of sand). The Dunedweller Redguards would wear light armour (a necessity in harsh conditions like that; you exert yourself less), while the Redguards of the cities along the coast and in the mountains would tend to favour heavier armour for adventuring, mercenary work, etc.
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 3:42 pm

That's mostly myth, there's no shortage of heavily armoured cavalrymen and elite troops in the Middle East and North Africa.
The entire concept of a rider covered head to toe in iron or steel was even a Persian invention, and the Mamluks and Ottomans were certainly no stranger to it either.

Just to illustrate: Mamluk cavalry armour from 1550:
Spoiler
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Ottoman_Mamluk_horseman_circa_1550.jpg[/img]

Low grade soldiers wearing mostly lighter forms of armour is usually a matter of cost, not because they didn't want to wear it.
The problem though is there is little documentation that any groups in the TES universe even used Cavalry. I believe there are a few but not many. So as much as I'd want to say the Raga Da used similar armaments to people of like the Songhai Empire, Persia or even the Ottoman empire I think they must be different. Fully armored infantry men were rare as foot soldiers. While the myth that it took a crane or whatever to lift a knight into their saddle is certainly BS it is however true that most places would only equip cavalry men in incredibly heavy armor. The heaviest armor a traditional medieval(this is a touchy word as there was not really a medieval period for a lot of cultures) infantryman would wear would like be something akin to this.
Spoiler

Skoutatoi


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Byzantine_fresca_from_St-Lucas.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Byzantine_fresca_from_St-Lucas.jpg12th century fresco of Joshua from the monastery of Hosios Loukas. It accurately depicts the typical equipment of a heavily armed Byzantine infantryman of the 10th-12th centuries. He wears a lamellar klivanion, splinted rerebraces and pteruges and is armed with a kontarion and a spathion.
The bulk of the Byzantine infantry were the skoutatoi, named from the word skouton, for their large oval or kite-shaped shield. Their armor and weapons included:
  • kremasmata: A skirt hanging below a soldier's cuirass to protect his legs.
  • klivanion (κλιβ?νιον): the characteristic Byzantine lamellar cuirass, usually sleeveless. In addition, pteruges (leather hanging strips) were worn to protect shoulders and hips.
  • zaba (ζ?βα) or lōrikion (λωρ?κιον): mail hauberks, usually reserved for the armoured cavalry cataphracts.
  • kavadion (καβ?διον) or vamvakion (βαμβ?κιον): A padded leather or cotton under-garment, worn under the cuirass.
  • epilōrikion (επιλωρ?κιον): A padded leather or cotton over-garment, worn over the cuirass.
  • spathion (σπαθ?ον): The typical Roman spatha, a longsword (about 90 cm), double-edged and very heavy.
  • paramērion (παραμ?ριον): a one-edged scimitar-like sword, girded at the waist.
  • kontarion (κοντ?ριον): a long spear (about 2 to 3 m), the kontarion was used by the first ranks of each chiliarchia (battalion) in order to fend off enemy cavalry.
  • Helmet: the helmet varied by region and time but was generally a simple, conical-shaped piece of steel, often with extra neck protection in the form of a mail or leather aventail.
  • skouton (σκο?τον): a large and oval (later kite-shaped) shield made of wood, covered by leather and reinforced with steel. Each unit had different shield decoration
I imagine they wore something similar to that if anything. But I could easily be wrong too.
Hmm, true. Granted, I think Turkey is a bit more mild than Hammerfell which sounds more like Morocco or Ghana, but I can definitely see heavy Raga Da soldiers fighting in something like that. It's not the armor material that's the problem really, it's how it can breathe in the heat. Considering that Redguards are used to life on the desert, they probably don't have to worry about that.
Even the most heat resistant people will still suffer in heavy armor in a desert. Not to mention it is very disadvantageous to fight in heavy armor in a desert for many reasons. But it also depends on the type of desert they are in. Is Hammerfell a packed dirt kind of desert or a sandy type? Either is disadvantageous in heavy armor but the sandy desert would be much much more so. They also seem to be a heavily Naval based society iirc. So I think most of the evidence points to the greater majority of their military forces fighting in light armor but I am sure there are heavy variants. They could be all types.
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Danielle Brown
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:07 am

Where are they fighting? What's the warrior's pedigree? Who/what are they fighting; and is this a duel?
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An Lor
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:18 am

In Skyrim they do not get any armor bonus and the Redguards we see who are native to Hammerfell do not wear armor so I'm guessing the majority are in hammerfell garb (clothes).

Back in Oblivion they were best suited for heavy armor but received bonuses in both. Heavy armor was highest due to a higher stat on endurance over the speed stat.

Just to add, there used to be something in the lore where many Redguards value Dwemer armor. This probably due to a large amount Dwemer ruins within Hammerfell and are entwined into Redguard lore.
The Redguard country of Hammerfell is named after a Dwemer ruin.
Redguard going into the military have to first brave a Dwemer ruin. I'm guessing this is why Dwemer armor became a part of Redguard lore. Dwemer is a heavy armor.
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Amie Mccubbing
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:03 pm

In my imagination place I like to see them wearing Lamellar styled armour primarily with bright reds, blues, and yellows in silks.
Ceramic Lamellar being a popular thing because it's cheap, somewhat sturdy, and very light.
And some kind of armour similar to Trollbone or Bonemold for the heavy-heavy armours.
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Chase McAbee
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:44 am

I don't want to take credit for this but I read somewhere that the test for a redguard warrior is to go into a dwarven ruin and bring out materials for his armor. So you gotta think that the warriors fashion some variation of dwarven armor.

Fun fact: Hammerfell is actually named after an event in which a dwarven ruler (forgot his name) was traveling west with his clan and after a great battle he flung volendrung up in the air and proclaimed wherever it landed to be their new home... Hence "hammerfell"
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helliehexx
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:03 am

Just to add, there used to be something in the lore where many Redguards value Dwemer armor. This probably due to a large amount Dwemer ruins within Hammerfell and are entwined into Redguard lore.
The Redguard country of Hammerfell is named after a Dwemer ruin.
Redguard going into the military have to first brave a Dwemer ruin. I'm guessing this is why Dwemer armor became a part of Redguard lore. Dwemer is a heavy armor.

I don't want to take credit for this but I read somewhere that the test for a redguard warrior is to go into a dwarven ruin and bring out materials for his armor. So you gotta think that the warriors fashion some variation of dwarven armor.

We literally just went over this misconception in another thread. The First Pocket Guide states that Redguards who want to join the Knights of the Scarab "must sail to the Dwemer Ruins of Stros M'kai, to avoid its deathtraps and 'wrestle its mechanical men back into shape'." It doesn't say anything about "Redguards joining the military" (and, btw, it had just mentioned that Hammerfell had no standing military.) The text only refers to a very select group of Redguards, and it makes no mention of a Redguard affinity for Dwarven artefacts.

And, on top of that, it's information from a text that's hundreds of years out of date.
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JERMAINE VIDAURRI
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 1:17 pm

Like Skyrim inhabitants I guess, given the harsh weather. No armor as "civilians", light armor for those who need mobility (hunters, thieves, pirates, guards, etc) and heavy ones for the serious business: knights of the various orders, officers, mercs, etc.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Tbh, I think it is open season for us to create some fanon Hammerfell armors. Anyone want to take a swing at it? Any artists?

I too am imagining http://images.wikia.com/deadliestwarrior/images/a/a8/Lamellar.jpg. I imagine http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mitchtanz/aftrcanknight.jpg only because of Skyrim though. Before Skyrim I always imagined them to wear http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1166/hannibalw.jpg. Sometimes http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/057/e/6/Fantasy_Chinese_Armor_by_garang76.jpg too. Might use this as a concept if I do a sketch of what I would imagine redguards to wear. In any case I assumed there would be some asia meets Europe kind of armor. Kind of like the Blades armor.
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Natasha Biss
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:47 pm

Wasn't there a Raga-dialogue duel in this thread before?

EDIT: My mistake.
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katie TWAVA
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:42 am

Porcelain.

Hammerfell is not all desert. I'd imagine desert warriors would have different armor than the coastal men, and that the Crowns and Forbears, with their fundamentally different philosophies, would also have different styles of combat and therefore different armor.

Although, their precision-based sword moves would imply that whatever else, they needed some degree of mobility, especially in their upper body. Make of that what you will.
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Cheville Thompson
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:08 am

http://hammerfell.daryam.com/ConceptArt.html
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Dalley hussain
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 6:31 pm

http://hammerfell.daryam.com/ConceptArt.html
Aren't those all fan-made though?
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Connie Thomas
 
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