Tragic! Just Tragic! ( Spoilers )

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:11 pm

Bad news Guys. I was trying to get the Brohter hood of Steel to understand that long term isolation would hurt their people.

WARNING! sPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE VERONICA MISSION...

Veronica had the idea of getting some piece of Technology to convince Elder Macnammara that society was moving on without him.

I was trying to get this plant data from vault 22 but for some reason, maybe because I did the 22 mission already, I couldn't get it.

So instead, I found a pulse gun that had the capablility to shut down power armour. It didn't work. Mcnammara was as closed minded as ever and Veronica, dejected, had me take her to a followers of apocalypse outpost where she attempted to start a new life for herself.

Well, it was about this time that the Brother hood of Steel boys decided to kill all those nice scientist for reasons that don't make sense to me. Well, now Veronica is bummed out and the brohter hood is damned to live an islolated life, not even offorded the simple pleasures of cable television, I Tunes, or internet pormography.

I'm really bummed out guys. But this is what makes fallout so cool. Someitmes, no matter how hard you try. It just doesn't work out for you ...

Any of you guys have better luck on this mission?
User avatar
Daniel Brown
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 11:21 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:16 pm

Veronica essentially has no happy ending no matter what you do, sort of a stark counterbalance to how generally "perky" she is in the game world.

Which one of the not-happy endings you want is up to you, they're all sort of 25% good, 75% bad so take the opportunity to just pick the one you want.
User avatar
Erich Lendermon
 
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:27 am

That's what you get for placing loyalty to a bunch of army deserter boy scout raiders.
I would give Veronica a second chance, forgive her loyalties. But her blindfolded zeal for a doomed organization, and her pout-and-cry desertion makes me sick. Loyalty is a good thing, but Veronica just keeps whining. I don't know which one is worse, Veronica or MacNamara, as the latter simply says "I know", when told he is bringing the Brotherhood to death. What kind of a leader knowingly dooms his people?


I always make sure the Brotherhood gets what it deserves.
User avatar
Cesar Gomez
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:06 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:55 am

I usually convice her to stay with them but then I wipe the BoS out. She seemed happy enough with the descion once she knew they would never change.
User avatar
CArla HOlbert
 
Posts: 3342
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:35 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:25 pm

What kind of a leader knowingly dooms his people?


President Eden.

"I'm going to release this virus that will purify the wasteland and hope it doesn't jump hosts to the pure humans in my Enclave. What? Viruses mutate? Poppycock!"
User avatar
TWITTER.COM
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:45 pm

President Eden.

"I'm going to release this virus that will purify the wasteland and hope it doesn't jump hosts to the pure humans in my Enclave. What? Viruses mutate? Poppycock!"

We would need to speculate that from two viewpoints. One: Modified FEV works like FEV Curling-13, or two: Modified FEV is fundamentally different in function.
Some differences between FEV Curling-13 and Modified FEV I have observed:

- Curling-13 is airborne, M-FEV is waterborne
- Curling unconditionally kills anyone not inoculated against its effects. M-FEV hits only mutants (though us Enclave fans have been discussing that it's not as merciless as we'd like to believe).
- Curling-13 affects only humans and their subspecies, while M-FEV kills "anyone and anything affected by mutation".
- Curling-13, as a human-engineered virus, will die out with the mutants as it will have no hosts to reproduce in. Modified FEV is apparently longer living which is odd, since to have a waterborne virus that kills mutants (that is, not a bacteriophage) it absolutely needs some other platforms to reproduce in. While waterborne viruses are plausible in this sense, the only way to ensure its longevity is to have it hit other types of life as well.
- Modified FEV is distributed through water most likely as Raven Rock is an underground CoG complex, while the Oil Rig was very much suitable for global distribution of viruses, although realistically speaking it's utter hogwash.

The only real way for M-FEV to hit pure strains is that the pure strains themselves mutate. The difference between pure and near human is so narrow that the virus must have some much more complicated taste than just "killing mutants". Alas, the entire concept of the FEV is total nonsense so we have to live with retconning and "but, but SCIENCE!" we get from developers.

That said Richardson's FEV was indeed foolproof. Eden's FEV is also foolproof as long as the Enclave still possesses a potent antidote and keeps away from radiation.
User avatar
Breanna Van Dijk
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:18 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:49 pm

We would need to speculate that from two viewpoints. One: Modified FEV works like FEV Curling-13, or two: Modified FEV is fundamentally different in function.
Some differences between FEV Curling-13 and Modified FEV I have observed:

- Curling-13 is airborne, M-FEV is waterborne
- Curling unconditionally kills anyone not inoculated against its effects. M-FEV hits only mutants (though us Enclave fans have been discussing that it's not as merciless as we'd like to believe).
- Curling-13 affects only humans and their subspecies, while M-FEV kills "anyone and anything affected by mutation".
- Curling-13, as a human-engineered virus, will die out with the mutants as it will have no hosts to reproduce in. Modified FEV is apparently longer living which is odd, since to have a waterborne virus that kills mutants (that is, not a bacteriophage) it absolutely needs some other platforms to reproduce in. While waterborne viruses are plausible in this sense, the only way to ensure its longevity is to have it hit other types of life as well.
- Modified FEV is distributed through water most likely as Raven Rock is an underground CoG complex, while the Oil Rig was very much suitable for global distribution of viruses, although realistically speaking it's utter hogwash.

The only real way for M-FEV to hit pure strains is that the pure strains themselves mutate. The difference between pure and near human is so narrow that the virus must have some much more complicated taste than just "killing mutants". Alas, the entire concept of the FEV is total nonsense so we have to live with retconning and "but, but SCIENCE!" we get from developers.

That said Richardson's FEV was indeed foolproof. Eden's FEV is also foolproof as long as the Enclave still possesses a potent antidote and keeps away from radiation.



Whoa .. You guys are having a social political debate about the Fallout Universe?

Awesome!
User avatar
Josephine Gowing
 
Posts: 3545
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:41 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:46 pm

The only real way for M-FEV to hit pure strains is that the pure strains themselves mutate.


Or for Eden's FEV to jump hosts from mutants to pure strains. That's the trouble with viruses, they have such a short life cycle that they evolve rapidly.

Given how pure strains are still capable of interbreeding with "mutants", the differences are much less than the differences between say, hogs and humans, or birds and humans - both of which have had viruses that jumped hosts to humans.

The difference between pure and near human is so narrow that the virus must have some much more complicated taste than just "killing mutants". Alas, the entire concept of the FEV is total nonsense so we have to live with retconning and "but, but SCIENCE!" we get from developers.


I think I prefer "Eden is an idiot" personally. This is the man who talks about growing up in rural Kentucky and expects it to be compelling rhetoric to an audience stuck in the Capital Wasteland, which has all the standard of living of Somalia, except with super mutants.

That said Richardson's FEV was indeed foolproof. Eden's FEV is also foolproof as long as the Enclave still possesses a potent antidote and keeps away from radiation.


If Eden had an antidote to the FEV, why didn't he say so? Instead of "you should be immune due to your vault upbringing [ignoring any mutation-related perks or quests you've done]" it should've been "Do this for me and I'll give you the vaccine, just in case."

Frankly, Eden's FEV seems a lot different to Curling-13.
User avatar
Bethany Watkin
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:14 pm

If Eden had an antidote to the FEV, why didn't he say so? Instead of "you should be immune due to your vault upbringing [ignoring any mutation-related perks or quests you've done]" it should've been "Do this for me and I'll give you the vaccine, just in case."

Frankly, Eden's FEV seems a lot different to Curling-13.



You weren't born in a vault though, that's the thing. Plus, with the mutation from the Wasteland Survival Guide, I'd actually be surprised if you didn't get killed from the M-FEV.
User avatar
DarkGypsy
 
Posts: 3309
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:32 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:22 pm

You weren't born in a vault though, that's the thing. Plus, with the mutation from the Wasteland Survival Guide, I'd actually be surprised if you didn't get killed from the M-FEV.


I know. You're James' kid, with James (probably) being a wastelander. You're just as vulnerable to Eden's FEV as Fawkes. The point is that Eden rally should've mentioned how he has an antidote... If he has one.
User avatar
Manny(BAKE)
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:14 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:21 pm

id like to think that he didnt mention the antidote...because ur not Enclave. His loyalties are with the Enclave, but you? You are a wild card, a curious person who has a reputation of getting things done. I believe he gave the wanderer the Virus because he had a good idea of how much time he had left before he was replaced and giving it to a capable person who has a reputaion for being curious... and a 50/50 chance of the strain being released was better then 0% because the colonel was against the idea. So ya, wanderer not Enclave just a hired hand , dosent matter about you after jobs done, so no antidote.
User avatar
Naomi Lastname
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:21 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:39 pm

Wiping out the Brotherhood. The one thing we can all agree upon.
User avatar
Sunnii Bebiieh
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:57 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:54 pm

I keep trying to tell myself there's some good there, but even my ultra-scientific, generally diplomatic fellow is having a hard time seeing the point to letting them live. Or rather, he's going to have a hard time arguing with Colonel Moore when it comes time to blow the bunker. Until then it's live and let live.
User avatar
Flesh Tunnel
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:43 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:43 am

Or for Eden's FEV to jump hosts from mutants to pure strains. That's the trouble with viruses, they have such a short life cycle that they evolve rapidly.

Given how pure strains are still capable of interbreeding with "mutants", the differences are much less than the differences between say, hogs and humans, or birds and humans - both of which have had viruses that jumped hosts to humans.

I think I prefer "Eden is an idiot" personally. This is the man who talks about growing up in rural Kentucky and expects it to be compelling rhetoric to an audience stuck in the Capital Wasteland, which has all the standard of living of Somalia, except with super mutants.

If Eden had an antidote to the FEV, why didn't he say so? Instead of "you should be immune due to your vault upbringing [ignoring any mutation-related perks or quests you've done]" it should've been "Do this for me and I'll give you the vaccine, just in case."

Frankly, Eden's FEV seems a lot different to Curling-13.

Without a doubt, I don't think it makes any sense either (thus my support for Colonel Autumn, who opposes the use of M-FEV).
However viruses apparently just don't work like that in Fallout universe :shrug: FEV-2 is still around, mutated by radiation. As the concept of "virus" in Fallout is green goo we can expect little sense from it.

Damn it, where is Andronicus when I need him! :P

We should definitely know more about FEV's structure. At least what type of virus it is (DNA/RNA...) and how the hell it survived decades underground in Mariposa military base before both Grey and the Enclave recovered it in their time. We are talking about ominous green goo allegedly a virus, that somehow can survive completely isolated on its own for possibly centuries. Vault 87 FEV actually ran out eventually, but it makes just as little sense as the case should be the opposite if a virus has multiple, even willing hosts available.

Viruses in Fallout make so little sense that IMO we have nothing but to call SCIENCE and believe what we are told in-game.

I know. You're James' kid, with James (probably) being a wastelander. You're just as vulnerable to Eden's FEV as Fawkes. The point is that Eden rally should've mentioned how he has an antidote... If he has one.

If any antidote exists for M-FEV they have it, as the Enclave had vast supplies of Curling-13 antidote back West. And considering how they smuggled Curling-13 to the East Coast, they could've also taken the antidotes themselves or the means to produce them.

Wiping out the Brotherhood. The one thing we can all agree upon.

Truer words have never been spoken :foodndrink:
User avatar
CHARLODDE
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:33 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:29 am

Damn it, where is Andronicus when I need him! :P


*cue epic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaaBN4Mm0Ok and the sound of whirring vertibird rotor wings

Right here. Never a dull moment when you're Eden's defender. :toughninja:

Or for Eden's FEV to jump hosts from mutants to pure strains. That's the trouble with viruses, they have such a short life cycle that they evolve rapidly.

Given how pure strains are still capable of interbreeding with "mutants", the differences are much less than the differences between say, hogs and humans, or birds and humans - both of which have had viruses that jumped hosts to humans.


Except that it doesn't do that.

We are told specifically in the ending slides that the Enclave is "preserved" while the rest of the wasteland population is wiped out.

"Humanity was preserved, but only in its purest form" (cut to massive picture of a group of Enclave)

Thus, Eden' virus does in no way harm the Enclave, just as Richardson's FEV Curling 13 virus would not have harmed the Enclave once they were given the proper inoculation. Broken Steel doesn't refute this idea, indeed it supports it.

Unless you can come up with concrete proof that viruses in Fallout (and specially the FEV virus) works exactly as you describe it to, then we are done here.

More to the point, I also don't recall that viruses have the ability to mutate humans into another creature in real life, increasing their size, strength and stamina and drastically changing their form and skeletal structure without completely killing them. :shrug: Thus arguing that a virus in the Fallout universe would be a "stupid move on Eden's part because this is how it would/should work in real life" is a moot point. Nothing for it.

We have to use a bit of fantasy logic when addressing these issues, since virtually nothing that exists as "SCIENCE" in the Fallout universe would be applicable to real-life (i.e. laser rifles that don't shoot a continuous beam), and you can't just pick and choose what to focus on as being "silly" simply because it suits your needs to destroy the credibility of a particular individual who bases an idea/plan on "SCIENCE" (and I'm not just referring to Eden here).

I think I prefer "Eden is an idiot" personally. This is the man who talks about growing up in rural Kentucky and expects it to be compelling rhetoric to an audience stuck in the Capital Wasteland, which has all the standard of living of Somalia, except with super mutants.


Eden is a ZAX AI thank you very much. :tongue: (Nope, not afraid to say it, I like that Eden is an AI)

Eden doesn't honestly believe the things he is saying to the wastelanders, if that's what you are implying, its all just propaganda.

Propaganda, I might add, that is apparently working on some level. Given how most radios in the wasteland appear to play Enclave radio and their are quite a few people tuning in.

Eden is a charismatic individual who promises the glory of a new beginning, why wouldn't people be drawn to that idea if they've been living in squalor all their lives? In any case, both Eden and Autumn use the radio for their own purposes, so its joint-Enclave policy.

If Eden had an antidote to the FEV, why didn't he say so?


The good President has no need for an antidote, as I have already previously explained.

His loyalties are with the Enclave, but you? You are a wild card, a curious person who has a reputation of getting things done. I believe he gave the wanderer the Virus because he had a good idea of how much time he had left before he was replaced and giving it to a capable person who has a reputaion for being curious...


Excellent point. Eden may have fully intended all along to have the LW die once the FEV was inserted and his mission complete.
User avatar
Gill Mackin
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:58 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:24 pm

Wiping out the Brotherhood. The one thing we can all agree upon.


Damn it Big J!!! It doesn't have to be this way! Why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!????????????????

Why God!? WHY!?

...

Colombus Crew Rules. Kicking Balls since 1996 ...
User avatar
Micah Judaeah
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:22 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:51 pm

heres what I did ...

Spoilers! SPOILERS IF YOU'VE NEVER DONE THE SLOAN, QUARRY JUNCTION OR GREAT KHAN MISSIONS!!!

I made my followers wait in sloan, then I jammed a stealth boy into my system, tripped out and stared at a Mole Rat with a limpy leg for 5 hours. I really gotta build up my tolerance.

I woke up the next day at noon, slapped myself in the face and resolved to do better. This time, I had Veronca walk me to the edge of Quarry Junction to make sure I didn't wander off ...

I snuck past all the Deathclaws and walked up the ridge until I saw this large piece of construction equipment, some kind of Rock convayor belt. I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong. Well, I noticed that there was this fuel tank not too far from the edge of the cliff. So I jumped on it, and I'll be damned if it wasn't far enough away from the Mother and alpha male Deathclaw. Perfect distance. I could shoot them all I wanted because by the time they got close to me, they would be so hurt they'd run off.

This took for ever though, and i left my damn Sniper Rifle in Novac. All I had was my Assault carbine, 1000 rounds, my 9mm machine gun, 250, and my 10mm machine gun, 300 rounds. Also, my trusty Grenade rifle.

Took a great long while, they kept running out of shooting range and running back in, boy those deathclaws are dumb. When I killed the Alpha and the momma, i said to myself, Rooster, why not kill them all? Sure there are only an estimated 3000 Death Claws in the world left and their an endangered species, but their also scary as hell!

I though I had killed them all when I hoped off my Death Perch but wouldn't you know it? There were 4 left! Holy Cheese and Crackers!!! Thank the good lord for that grenade rifle, as it taught me something goood about the Death Claws. If you shoot their legs, even just cripple one, their slower than a long taled cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Anyway, you can use that short cut if you need it, their all dead now. I imagine this would help the economy, people need rocks and such. They offerede me some big fancy reward but I said nah, get some medical help for that poor mole rat, snuffy, my doctor skills are worst than [censored] fifth grader trying to land an airplane.

That's how I did it, anybody take a different approach to this random act of kindness?
User avatar
sas
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:40 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:10 pm

Hehe! The Enclave Sithmasters are discussing their WOMD, openly, in a board dedicated to the tragedy of BoS...

How tragicomic...
User avatar
Zualett
 
Posts: 3567
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:36 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:07 am

Hehe! The Enclave Sithmasters are discussing their WOMD, openly, in a board dedicated to the tragedy of BoS...

How tragicomic...


I'm not familiar with the enclave, Cat? Are you saying their not to be trusted. I don't know the history, I grew up in one of those vaults where they didn't value the book learning.
User avatar
Add Me
 
Posts: 3486
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:21 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:13 am

I'm not familiar with the enclave, Cat? Are you saying their not to be trusted. I don't know the history, I grew up in one of those vaults where they didn't value the book learning.


Oh, don't you worry, Vaultboy. Sure they can be trusted... They are the only true Americans left. Just tell them you like baseball and run like hell when they start shooting.
User avatar
Georgia Fullalove
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:48 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:34 pm

Oh, don't you worry, Vaultboy. Sure they can be trusted... They are the only true Americans left. Just tell them you like baseball and run like hell when they start shooting.


Well there's just one problem with that, Cat ...

(Rooster cocks his Shotgun )

I don't like baseball very much. Where can I find these Enclave boys so I can tell them that?
User avatar
Mark
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:59 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:42 am

Mostly under rocks. Unfortunately they are almost extinct. Sadly, they were the best prey ever in the Wasteland. Nowadays it's just legionaries. Throwing spears and ugly helmets, bah...! The Enclave had style for sure.
User avatar
Je suis
 
Posts: 3350
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:44 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:56 am

I believe at the time I was using my Trusty Scoped Hunting Rifle, hand loaded ammo, and mines so the bastards couldn't sneak up on me.

I remember keeping my cool and sniping them one by one. But I did sort of shoot myself up with some psycho first, so there's always a chance it was a little but more of a bloodbath than I remember. Maybe that would explain the blood that's stained my combat knife and new collection of Deathclaw hands...
User avatar
SEXY QUEEN
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:54 pm

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:01 pm

I usually try to pick off one at a time with the Anti-Material Rifle or a Sniper Rifle.
User avatar
K J S
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:50 am

Post » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:03 am

I walked in there in Remnents PA with Mercy.
I won.
User avatar
Robyn Howlett
 
Posts: 3332
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:01 pm

Next

Return to Fallout: New Vegas