For any of you who hang out in the RP section might know, I'm the creator of the "Trapped In the Imperial City" roleplay which is based on the idea that you are somehow sent to Tamriel and must survive in it. Now then, in the story I've blamed this event on things such as Telvanni mages meddling,Dragon Breaks (used before I really knew what they were) or some sort of breakdown in the stability of the universe because of all the recent events in Tamriel (from Jagar Tharn to the return of Jyggalag). This breakdown has created a rift in time and space, creating at least for a few moments a gate between our world and the world of Tamriel.

I know that in real life such an event wouldn't happen (or would it?),and it is just a backstory to an RP, but its still fun to hypothosize about this sort of thing. Besides, if I can get a sound lore basis in this event I can dramatically improve my RP's story, and think of a way to get everyone back home in it.

But admittedly I don't know enough about lore to really think of how inter-world/universe travel would work. There is some sort of precedent in that in the universe of Tamriel one can travel between Mundus and Oblivion (hope I got that labelling right) through gates or artifacts. However, I daresay travelling to Oblivion is much different than travelling to our universe. So while the same rules may apply to Tamriel-Earth travel as it is to Mundus-Oblivion travel, it could also be much different.

So lore forum, any idea on how something like this would theoretically work? Would something like a Sigil Stone be an option, or could lets say Sheogorath just make a gate appear in our world at his will (my god that would create some chaos). Or for all we know they could make something like the subtle knife from the "His Dark Materials" series and just cut their way through till they got here.

By the way, we're looking at travelling between worlds from the perspective that the initiation of the travel is from Tamriel. We are not talking about going from here to there but from there to here, so to speak.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/doors_oblivion.shtml will give you about everything you need to know on traveling between Mundus & Oblivion...

"The Psijics of Artaeum have a place they call The Dreaming Cave, where it is said one can enter into the Daedric realms and return... We had hopes of using the ruins of the Battlespire to access Oblivion. The Weir Gate still stands, though the old proving grounds of the Imperial Battlemages itself was shattered some years ago in Jagar Tharn's time...

There are references in lore to Marukh's Abyss, the Corryngton Mirror, the Mantellan Crux, the Crossroads, the Mouth, a riddle of an alchemical formula called Jacinth and Rising Sun, and many other places and objects that are said to be Doors, but we could not find.

Some exist, but cannot be entered safely. The whirlpool in the Abecean called the Maelstrom of Bal can make ships disappear, and may be a portal into Oblivion, but the trauma of riding its waters would surely slay any who tried. Likewise, we did not consider it worth the risk to leap from the Pillar of Thras...

The simplest and most maddeningly complex way to go to Oblivion was simply to cease to be here, and begin to be there. Throughout history, there are examples of mages who seemed to travel to the realms beyond ours seemingly at will."

Well,thanks for that info as it does help me understand Mundus-Oblivion travel. However, I was kind of wondering if theoretically one could expand upon the idea of travelling from Mundus to Oblivion into some sort of travel between Tamriel and another world that is not part of the Tamriel universe. Like Tamriel to Earth, for example (using that as the example since my RP is similar). I'll give a scenario to try and explain it better:

Let's say a mage is tampering around with gates to Oblivion by trying to open one himself. However, when he finally succeeds in opening a gate of some sorts he finds that it is not Oblivion he has found but, oh lets say, New York City? I'm trying to figure out how that sort of thing could work within the realm of Elder Scrolls metaphysics.

Overall I guess its just an exercise in logic and metaphysical thinking. Nothing really important comes out of it except I can have a better backstory for my "Trapped in" series of roleplays.

Reminds me of the Dark Tower.

Wouldn't we reach zero-sum quite quickly if we were trapped in the TES world?

And what would happen if MK got trapped in a TES world?

People's heads will explode, in the TES universe and in real life.

Starlight.

I can be in Tamriel whenever I want.

By the way, would someone mind explaining to me what exactly zero-sum is? I've seen the word before while lurking in the lore forums, but I've never really understood it.


Mind explaining that a little more?

Mothpriest: [censored], I'm only a dream. wait... that means i don't exist. *poof* <-- zero-summed! (in Unreal Tournament announcer voice)


that is to say someone will come along and explain it better then me

-1+1=0

And personally I think it's another form of spiritual divination for the Moth Priests, but there's not much to back that up.

And what happens after zero-sum? Does the soul go through the dreamsleeve again, or are you just...gone? Both results raise the question of how anyone knows that someone has achieved zero-sum...

You can record it in a http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/sporedream.shtml

Starlight crosses vast distances through inhospitable space, light from someplace else. It is not a coincidence when a sigil of royalty also has the connotation of starlight (you will find the sigil of royalty when you look in the library - I can already hear the groans of the scholars about what I'm trying to say here).

To be more exact: what hinders me not to be in Tamriel whenever I want? I only need to close my eyes, and sometimes not even that is needed. In a way, this here is Tamriel, too. And our presence in Tamriel makes Nirn go 'round.

Not really anything related to lore, but I do remember hearing someone talking about quantum fluctuations in a documentary once. If I'm not mistaken, he hypothesised that one could be used to travel from this universe to another one, from earth to tamriel. Of course, it was also stated that it would require a freaking lot of energy, so I think that would throw it out the window as a possibility.

:huh:
I'll admit that for me abstract thoughts like that kind of go over my head. I think I get what your saying with the "what hinders me not to be in Tamriel whenever I want?" part, but that last sentence confuses me. Also, I was really hoping to get into more metaphysical details. Part of the reason for me doing this is to improve the backstory for my RP and future incarnations of it.


Two things:
1.What is a quantum fluctuation (I'll look it up, but I'd still like an explanation here).
2.The fact that we are limited in what we can do is why I'm trying to focus the idea on Tamriel since, as I think it can be shown, they can do a whole lot more than us when it comes to such things (again, using the Oblivion Gates as a precedent and seeing if it can be used for more than Mundus-Oblivin travel).

Something dealing with quantum physics. Here, I'll post a http://universe-review.ca/R03-01-quantumflu.htm. I probably couldn't explain it too well anyway.
Well, if your going to say that someone opened a portal or otherwise screwed up messing with portals, then it would have to have been some mortal mage. Can't imagine the daedra having the drive to do it. Maybe you could use some corruption of the theory in liminal bridges.

You know, some guy tries to open an oblivion gate, screws up, and opens several unstable inter-dimensional pathways. Earth people get svcked in, but because they know of tamriel on some level their subconcsious minds are capable of knowing or feeling its presence and they are guided to tamriel through such pathways.(pulled that out of my ass)

Oh boy! Quantum mechanics!


A quantum fluctuation is the spontaneous creation and mututal destruction of a "Virtual" particle/antiparticle pair. These particles exist only for the smallest possible unit of time, before anihilating and returning to the null of empty space. In that short moment, they can influence other, REAL particles. Because these virtual particle pairs appear randomly, their influence over 'real' matter is random as well. Moreover, their own anihilation can be the 'cause' of their creation. Virtual Particles can seem to side-step certain points of causality.

Ironic. The one time when I talk metaphysics in plain words, I get asked for metapysical details....

Look up CHIM, Vehk's teachings, Hurling Disk and the Sermons.

Oh, and here's something metaphysical for you:

Last time I came to Tamriel,
I sent the Hurling Disk to spin,
Of many stories I can tell,
Which only happen when I'm in.

The truth, which many here will dread,
Of Arena's world of war and strife,
When I'm not there, she's pretty dead,
When I return, she's back to life.

I speak of me, of - I -, I tell,
And when I do, it's all 'bout We,
I are all We, just cast the spell,
It's the most powerful to be.

From I to We, we get to You,
(I don't do this out of a whim)
'Cause you have got said power too,
The name is Starlight, Splendour
- CHIM.

Tamriel is the ultimate in "If you can dream it you can be it." Meaning you don't have to get all tech and quantum on it's a$$. All you really need is for someone to believe in a place called "Earth", with all its oceans, mountains, valleys, cities, people, etc. and if that someone is focused enough, and believes enough then poof there's your (their) "Earth" and the doorway to said "Earth". Of course you either need one person with a tremendous amount of willpower, or a large group of people, to believe in and focus in on the concept of a place called "Earth", but it is very doable in the TES universe IMO.

I believe I had something like that in the first roleplay in the series. But I'm pretty much asking how exactly such an event occur, if possible at all.


I'll get back to you on that once I read up on it and figure out what you just said (sorry to say that physics is not my specialty).


Eh, sorry for the irony part. But I work better with details.And I'll take a look at all those when I get the time. I've looked at some of them before, but like physics I'm nowhere near understanding it.




So from my perspective what you and Nalion are trying to say is that there truly isn't anything stopping Tamriel-Earth travel and if one wishes to do so they can with enough concentration and willpower, right?

In a nutshell......yes. (At least I am. I love how Nalion puts things, but he is so far beyond me I don't even try going there.) But is it really that simple? I think what you have to ask yourself is, does "Earth" already exist? (As far as the TES universe is concerned that is.) If not, then one has to be created, and then one has to think about what that encompasses. Basically we are now in the realm of the mind of God. So, though it sounds simple....."Just focus and it will exist." one must actualize the "Earth" and everything that makes up that "Earth", from the stars in the sky to the smallest atom. No small feat for the mortal mind. Heck, we have enough problems deciding if we want scrambled eggs or Coco puffs in the morning, let alone knowing how many grains of sand are on the beach.

Now if the "Earth" does exist then it's just simply making a doorway to it. I think that's easier than having to create "Earth" and everything around it from scratch. And you probably won't have to become a god in order to do it.

The bolded part is what I've been trying to get at. I'm playing off the assumption that Earth exists as a separate entity than Mundus,Oblivion, and the rest of the Elder Scrolls universe (right word?). I'm pretty much asking how would that doorway work since, as far as we know, Earth does not exist in those realms.

Hmm, maybe Earth is a Daedric Realm?

You're headed in the wrong direction.
Let's just put it that way. Don't think of how our world fits into Mundus, but rather how Mundus fits into our world.

In other words, the people trapped in the TES universe are actually in comas, having a shared hallucination, and are actually still on earth, but likely in a hospital bed, or in a mental institution.


EG-- The Aurbis is a world of meta-substance, which is based on imagination/dream/myth. Humans from our world can go there whenever we want just by imagining going there. To become trapped there, is to become ensnared in a dream/hallucination.


You can make it more interesting as a subplot, by having the TES universe be sustained as a gestalt hallucination in the combined subconscious of the people of our universe. That should open quite a few doors.


Corporeal travel to a world comprised of metaphysical substance does not seem directly possible, especially given this conjectured relationship. However, if it WERE to occur, people sent there would have a higher subgradient consciousness than the imagined people of Mundus, and would thus have demi-god like powers, most likely. Just a thought.

Yeah, what those two others guys just said. :rofl: :bolt: :woot: