For locked stuff like doors, containers, etc. should there only be locks (like in Oblivion) or locks and traps (like Morrowind).

The third choice is in case someone doesn't lock the door just traps it, but it seems silly to say there should be no locks anywhere, so I'm not including that option.

I voted for both. I have fond memories of games that used both. Morrowind does not give me fond memories of lockpicking.

Basically, as much as many denizens of this forum like the real-time aspect, lockpicking in Morrowind is and always was a joke. Oblivion at least made it something more than a dice roll. Fallout 3 made it something other than a timing game. And yet... it's still not all that interesting of an activity.

What we need are:

- more than one type of lock. In Morrowind, you might have had variable difficulty (moreso than Oblivion), but a Level 100 lock was the same as a level 5 lock. Oblivion used locks of 1-5 pins, but they were always composed of the same pins. Never different pins, or combination-type locks. We hear all about the different types of locks in the skill books... let's get to SEE them. And more importantly, PICK them.

- variable complexity. By complexity, I mean "Easy" and "Very Hard" in Oblivion are of different scales, but equal complexity: they are both multi-pin locks with a single pin type. Lockpicking would be more satisfying if some chests had straight pins AND offset or bent pins, as well as other security features. The ability of a player to smoothly master two or three types of pins isn't much different than mastering one. The effort required is a bit more.

- multi-stage traps. The first dozen or so traps in Return to Krondor are fulfilling to disarm because they are multi-stage and you have to figure out what tools disarm what components best. Bethesda can certainly top that experience, I'd think, with traps of more than three stages.

- Partially disarmed traps should have altered triggering characteristics (example: a trap might, after you tamper with the trigger, never trigger on lockpick, but now be vulnerable to going off when the container is jostled. This means removing or adding to the contents leads to a magic dice roll to see if the trap goes off) and possibly do more (or less) damage, depending on how disarmed they are.

- No unified tool kits "readily available". While I don't mean "don't put a full tool set as such in the game", I do mean "make collecting a full tool set an accomplishment", at least until the player is a proven thief/assassin. At that point, I have no objection to selling a full kit at once (although there should ALWAYS be a genuine advantage to scrounging your own set: higher quality tools and picks should be hand-placed in the world.)

Now, not every lock should be trapped. In fact, very few should be, as an overall percentage.
But trapped doors and chests... should contain stuff that makes a player WANT to pick locks and dismantle traps. Not always, of course. As a bone to the forumites, an extreme lock protecting nothing more than a few notes and some low-class clutter should exist. Because as long as the notes are... interesting... we're crazy enough to find that funny.

The second option is confusing. Do you actually mean that every locked door should also be trapped? That would be veeeery strange.

In Morrowind, doors were either locked, trapped, or locked AND trapped. So that sounds like the third choice of your poll, and I voted for that.
Actually, I wouldn't understand why somebody would choose the second choice over the third one. The third one simply means that there's more variety possible. :huh:

For the lockpicking itself, I'd prefer a realtime solution over one that pauses the game like the one from Oblivion. I'd also prefer it if my character's Security skill was more important than my player skills. However, I don't like the idea of stabbing the door ten times before it finally opens. If I tell my character to pick a lock, that means that he should keep trying until the lock is open, or until I tell him otherwise.
Ideally, it would be like this: I tell my character to start picking the lock. Then a percentage bar appears showing my progress, but the game doesn't pause. If I see that someone's coming, I can cancel the action. My Security skill in combination with the quality of my lockpick determines 1) if I'm able to pick this lock at all, 2) how long the lockpicking takes and 3) how much I damage my lockpick during that time.

I never played Morrowind, but from the look of the poll so far, traps seem pretty cool. So why not have both traps and locks? As long as not every locked door has a trap.

I like Morrowind's lockpicking because it is quick, is easy to execute, and and doesn't throw some pop-up minigame in your face.

I selected both traps and locks because when it comes to obstacles, the more the merrier.

Meh I always thought Oblivion/lockpicking made more sense. I hated having to equip a lockpick/probe because sometimes I would forget to equip a weapon afterwards and not realize why I wasn't doing any damage to enemies.

Traps and Locks. Traps should only be on more secure stuff, though.


Sure, just make it so I have to activate the container, but I hated that minigame... It wasn't that it was hard, it was just repetative and boring, locking isn't big enough of an aspect to have this huge minigame, and I don't want my mages and warriors to be able to open any locks they see fit.

One thing I don't want to see is impossible to open locks. Sure, have hard locks, or ones that require some kind of combination, or magic effect, I just don't see how these keys are so much better than lockpicks.

I can't say that ever happpened to me, but I would've loved Oblivion's minigame in Morrowind, without a GUI, of course

I may be dense but I didn't get the point of the last option, anyway I'd like to see both traps and locks... It should however requite a certain security skill level to detect traps

I didn't really see the point in Morrowind. None of the traps took any skill to disarm. All it did was take more time to equip a probe.

The main reason it had little point in Morrowind was because it was an identical obstacle on a one-way street; the only way to get into that locked chest was with security skill...the same skill you used to remove the trap. Adding more factors (bashing open containers, traps damaging contents or alerting guards, more varied trap/lock types to make them two different things, disarming floor tile traps, setting your own, magic-sensitive traps set off by unlocking spells, etc) can make them have a point.

Oblivion's lockpicking mini game didn't make much sense to me, because:

1: The game pauses when you do it, allowing you to conveniently take your time to open a door while monsters are chasing you, or opening a chest when the owner just turned around the corner for a second.
2: Once you figured the minigame out, there was no challenge to it. Your character's security skill would make it easier, but it wasn't all that important. If I want to, I can unlock any lock with a security skill of 5.

Traps and locks. But both magical and mechanical traps.

Magical traps is pretty self explanatory
Mechanical, think Indiana Jones...

I also want the ability to lock and trap my own stuff again.

Same with dialogue... Same with opening your 'backpack' to switch spells or equip a different item or to find a teleport scroll. Freezing time is a very common thing to do in games.

Ah my bad. No the second option just says that there should be some stuff that's only locked, and some stuff that's locked and trapped.
The third option is basically the second but in addition there are some things that are only trapped but not locked. It still has some stuff locked, and some stuff locked and trapped. Sorry for the confusion.


Also, I really like how you describe lockpicking to work. It actually kind of reminds me a bit of splinter cell games (just with more stats involved).

They don't pause the game at a time where it'd make sense for you to have to to an action quickly. Lockpicking is supposed to be done quickly when someone is in the room. Spells are done by saying words, and it shouldn't take a long time to switch. The backpack itself doesn't make sense, so I wont go into that (not that it should be changed)

And dialogue should only pause the game when it's text-based, it wouldn't be feasible otherwise, I think everyone agrees. Voice acted, though, shouldn't pause.

I want the lock pick system from Thief to come back. I loved that.

And you should be able to smash a lock if you cant open it.

Traps and locks. Make that Security skill actually worth having!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure by now that everyone who voted for the second choice actually wanted to vote for the third choice.

Actually... No. The third choice says that locks and traps should be separated.

Actually, no.
Look at Lavahawk's explanation.

I did... Says the same thing.

I mean that explanation.
It specifically says that the third choice is the second choice with one more option. What you're saying is that the third choice is the second choice with one option less.

I'd like to see them both.