I've been following this forum relentlessly since the announcement, but for whatever reason never thought to register and post anything. It seemed like a good time to go whole hog so here I am.
Since this is my first post, I pledge the following:
I will not post a topic about, fast travel, hardcoe mode, expansion packs, graphics, a limited edition, how Morrowind is better than Oblivion, excessive and meaningless polls etc. I think those have been pretty well covered. You're welcome

Anyway,
I like the fact that crafting things has been announced, it could be an exciting and fun new addition to the series and help to further make each playthrough incredibly unique... But, there are different ways to do it.

The (arguably) boring way is to have recipes and you simply have x bits of iron and y bits of Daedric dandruff and you can make a [Daedric Dandruff Mace of Terror]. This is how it's commonly been done in games like WoW and others that have crafting systems, I would assume that at least in this case since Bethesda is known to be more creative than others that you would simply have elements that could be combined and then you could name your new item ala spellmaking/enchanting in previous titles. The problem is, while the stats are unique, the end product is just another iron sword with 30 fire damage or whatever, it's not really all that unique.

The (undoubtably) exciting and interesting way to do crafting would be taking a page from the hugely disappointing game Spore, which while being an in every other sense a dull and average game, had one of the most robust creation systems ever seen by mankind. By providing hundreds of elements such as blade styles and handles and engraving options, or on clothing, buttons and pockets and dyes and so forth. The possibilities for the character to create truly customizable items without the use of external modding tools would be truly impressive. The very existence of the gigantic and at times ridiculous (ok most times) modding community is evidence of the players desire to make something unique and truly "theirs" in the Elder Scrolls. If the crafting system provides that in the vanilla game, I think crafting could add a good 40 hours of gameplay per playthrough, especially if discovering new designs and blade/clothing/armor elements were a part of the game. I find in some random cave an interesting sword and now I can use those kind of sword elements in my future crafting designs. Also the elements themselves could contain attributes.

Enough chit chat, what do you guys think will make it into the game? Oh and I'm sure you'll ask for a poll so I guess I'll make one.

For this game, I'd honestly prefer recipe crafting (if any at all).

Why?

Because coming up with a spore-ish "freestyle crafting" system could easily be the entire focus of a game - it seems like something that would take up so much time and effort to dream up (and animate/etc), that it isn't something you'd do (at least not the first few times) as just a random minor feature.

I like minecraft's crafting system.

http://soft-navigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/How-To-Craft-in-Minecraft-Basic-Recipes-Soft-Navigator.com_.png

Fair enough, I guess Spore's system is essentially the entire game (could be the reason that the rest of the game was so lame) but I don't think it needs to quite reach that point. A simplified version could be made which follows some basic restrictions. You couldn't build swords that curl into a circle or anything like that, and all robes would have the same basic animated mesh/physics. But the texturing and bump mapping could be customizable with things like buttons and extra layers etc. You could then have say, 10 basic helmets, but 150 decorations you could do with them. The horns on the trailer guy would be an example then of something you add to the basic steel helmet to make it customizable. Halo 3 sort of did this in the most basic way with their decal system. Bethesda doesn't need to do procedural animation like spore, since we aren't talking about creatures, just inanimate objects, no animation required.

Being able to truely create your own weapon would be amazing, but I fear it will not be a possibility in this game.

I am quite sure though this will become a reality in the next console & PC era (PC's already have the pwer to do this)

proper crafting would be a huge bonus to the game for me, one of my fave things in oblivion was potion making. If i can make custom armor, arrows, tools, weapons, clothes, food, (cooking has been confirmed - in some form) etc and then sell the things i make, put them on display, or use them that would be awesome, and i would spend loads of time doing it. You could then choose a profession and stick to it if you wanted, like 'chef' or 'smith' or 'carpenter', by making and selling your own food, tools, arrows etc. I am pretty sure crafting is gonna be a big part of skyrim as it has been mentioned quite a lot in the podcasts and articles, just hope they do it right.

While this could be awesome I doubt they'd commit the budget to it since it's not the major focus of the game as far as I know.

Or spears?

As for crafting, I'm expecting a really nice system in place. I hope we can dismantle armor/weapons and then use the resources to either upgrade other weapons/armor and also to craft stuff from scratch. I like the crafting in Two Worlds 2, so hopefully Skyrim 's is sort of like that but also deeper.

crafting has already been mentioned loads in all the articles and podcasts, so it will be a big part of the game. How big, and how it's going to be handled are the real questions.

Pretty sure he/she/it meant the OP:s idea of a crafting system, and not crafting in general.

My opinion is, no... lets not repeat the mistake of spore and that shooter mmorpg basing it's entire gameplay on being able to customize everything which failed miserably.

EDIT: Just remembered, it was called APB... damn it failed.

I'm with this guy. A more advanced version of Minecraft's crafting grid would be pretty awesome.

This pretty well sums up my take on it too. The idea of a genuine crafting system rather than a predetermined "Blade A onto Hilt B" assembly system is great, but in practice the decision must be made: is the goal a game, or a crafting system? It's rather like the two or three previous crafting threads wanting to be able to design your own parts/weapons/armor rather than recipes, nice idea- except for needing to basically build the Creation Kit into the game and teach everyone to mod in order to be able to implement it.

Well TES have free-form alchemy, enchanting and spellmaking
Skyrim will not have spelmaking I afraid if someone will think thats alchemy and enchanting will also too 'spreadsheetty' and make 'unique' receipts with different bottles 'cool looking' generic alchemist benches for them instead of free form alchemy with Apparatus, and Sigil Stones like premade enchants, I believe Souls will have premade 'unique' enchants like in Daggerfall, its good idea but not as replacement for free-form enchanting,
I feel thats will be done it has own pluses and advantages but will take another part of freedom from game, doesn't some one already say we can play without limitations, we have freedom of play.

But receipt system can also be good if it will be well done
for first there is high number of receipts with great variety ( for example think about Diablo 2 or Borderlands receipts they premade but have large number of bases, prefixes and suffixes) such receipts can be also applied for random generic magic loot generation in game for greater variability and surprises but also tidy large leveling lists and for identify of unknown items.
Such system is WIP for oblivion
[WIPz] Automatic Random Enchantment System (ARES)
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1154410-wipz-automatic-random-enchantment-system-ares
Horadric Cube
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10762

for second we can add new ones in CS, such features must be editable for freedom of self-expression

Another part of crafting in Skyrim its Smithing and Cooking
I believe with Smithing we can create base items with smith equipment and material and fine tune them with small values thats cannot be done with enchanting like make item more durable in cost larger weight or make armor reinforced for better protection, or sharp weapons in cost of durability etc, wile cooking will allow create food from ingredients thats can be also used as an base for alchemy, so restore fatigue effect will not so frequent like before and raw ingredients will have different stats, poison thats food with alchemy there is many interesting ways how implement it.

that's isn't what the op is saying, he is just saying maybe take a leaf from spores page, alchemy was a huge part of my oblivion experience but i am sure some people ignored it all together. Just because it's there, even if it's there in a really cool, big way doesn't mean that the whole game will be based around it and players could still choose to ignore it all together if they wished. That is the whole ethos of elder scrolls, to let the player do what they want, when they want and how they want. surely having a really good crafting system in place will support that ethos?

To make an ingame editor like spore's in a game such as Skyrim would be folly... The spore tools basically were the game (IMO they could have just skipped that entire pesky gameplay:ey thingy and focused on the tools or just shipped the thing earlier) and if Bethesda were to make a similar one it'd eat up so much of their time the game would svck.

I liked alchemy too, and enchanting, and spelmaking in Oblivion, and I'm psyched about them adding crafting to Skyrim. But I certainly don't want gameplay or other more important things to pay the price for the addition of crafting.

My advice is, to this entire forum, is to study/work as hell, try to make a lot of money and give it all to Bethesda so they can hire lots of people and add all that content you so desperately crave for TES VI or VII.
As a matter of fact, leave this forum now and make some money, then get together will all the other people on this forum who want what you want as well (be that spears, crafting tools, wereX etc etc) and send it all in to Bethesda along with what you would want to see added to the game. Who knows, maybe they'll be so shocked they'll actually do it.

I agreed with you on one thing. Recipe crafting (I all it shopping list style) isn't that good. It's just a fetch quest. You find me these 3 things and I will give you a new sword. You can have some fun with the system, but the fun comes from exploring and finding the ingredients. The actual crafting is just a menu. On the same idea, I don't think that a totally freedom system (like what you suggest) is much better. It's a lot like a recipe system only with a lot more recipes. You get to have the freedom to make your perfect sword with a skull for a tip, but you miss out on exploration.

I think you're all thinking of something way bigger than I mean. I don't mean an entire game in and of itself, but rather a system of art components that can be combined, lots of games do this already in making their own content, mixing and matching components to make new stuff, it's not rocket science.
I believe the Bethesda game B.R.I.N.K. is supposed to have this sort of customization that I'm talking about, maybe that's a better example than Spore.

No, I reserve the right to at least one Spears topic, I mean it seems like a tradition on here.
Where's my fishy stick...

I agree with you, you missed mine and the op's point. we aren't saying 'make it like spore', it was a bad example. We are just saying, do it properly and maybe look at how some other games have done it first then maybe borrow some idea's and make them better/true to the elder scrolls universe. Build the crafting from the ground up and make it better than just a bunch of menu's and a sound effect. (though i do love the alchemy in oblivion) it's open to discussion really until we know for sure, and i am positive it will be great in the final game. i would just hate it if the crafting turns out to be exactly what alchemy was in oblivion, i would just like to see a new approach to what's gone before is all. something a bit more tangible than a menu and a sound effect.

I would like if we get some really neat crafting since it would be cool to create gear of your own that has few personal touches, but is also strong enough (if you are skilled enough to create it that way) to be on par with unique items.

That is just a recipe.

Alright, my bad then I guess :biggrin:.
Have you ever played Dark Messiah then? The way you forged weapons there were kinda fun (even though you only did it twice )

There should be a "none of the above" choice. Lets see which crafting systems do I like...well, WoW had a good one, Two Worlds II an OK one, and Way of the Samurai had a really cool one, in which the player collects different handles, blades, hilts, pommels, etc and combines them to create a different type of katana, etc.

sorry to burst your bubble but for it to be in the game they devs have to make it first so what ever we will craft will be preset already.

I wouldn't mind the recipie for the actual sword, but i would like to have some sort of basic custimization of said sword. Like what was said before: Hilt A + Blade B + Engraving D = Custom sword, IMO would make a satisfying custimization system. Kinda like making the Gatekeeper in SI