That's the main thing I hated about going to the Halo forums when Reach was released. It was so full of "my opinionz r factz" people that it was unbearable. I have really missed this site. Of all the gaming forums I go to, this was the most civil. Of course, Fallout and Skryim have brought in a whole new crowd, so I'm sure it will devolve sooner or later.

Dude, this forums are more uncivilized than /v/, so to speak.

My only real gripe with quests and rewards is that it seems like you get the best rewards in the quest line, not at the end of it. Also a bit of an issue due to the smithing system (that Elven Shield is a lot less useful when you can just make one in a few seconds). Something that does need to be worked out, but not earth-shattering.

Nothing huge, but spoilering anyway:


As far as the greetings and all, likely just a minor snafu in the files relating to status and greetings. Nothing worth getting a hernia over.

Quest length? Could be a bit longer, I suppose. They could always pad it out with the generic "go get this for me" and "go kill this guy" that was most of the Morrowind faction lines. I was fine with the Thieves' Guild here, while I felt the Companions could have done more. Haven't done DB yet.

Also fine with the loss of Attributes. I don't want to go into it here too much, but in an RPG attributes are meant to define a character and be pretty concrete - a high Strength, low Int character will never be much of a mage, if at all. In games where it's possible to raise attributes, to do so would require shifting focus away from his main role, quite possibly making him less of a warrior. In TES, there's no barrier at all other than "how much time do you have?". While people will try to defend it with "It made my character unique!" it's only at the beginning - most TES characters eventually branch out to be a jack of all trades type.

"Limiting the usefulness of skills". So without putting any real effort into it, I can't just became a master archer or an Archmage just because I like to shoot rats or throw my basic fire spell at a wall? Sounds like this adds a bit of character depth to me. My first character was a bit of a jack of all trades, pretty good at combat but not as effective because he tried to dabble as a mage. My second is a sneak thief - great when he's got the advantage, but hard pressed in open battle. Could you do this in the old system? Yes, but it makes it more concrete here - you can never be the absolute master of all skills.

Story and the game world: Fine with this. It makes you do a bit in the beginning, and the world has a general feel something is going on. People complained about Oblivion often not having anything to do with the story (since the world shattering Daedra invasion was a minor inconvenience at best aside from Kvatch), which is probably why Bethesda did it this way.

Wow, you actually know that poster so well you were there for their very first RPG? Not trying to be an [censored], but Imma call BS. I'm still baffled and amazed at all the complex, convoluted, contrived contortions folks will endure to try and "explain" Morrowind's popularity. Perhaps not your intent, but your response highlights a major flaw in the whole "Rose colored Nostalgia glasses" theory.

1: Nostalgia. If that were the case, then they would be singing the praises of EVERY game they played at that time, not JUST Morrowind. Since this isn't the case, we have 2 choices. Either the Nostalgia theory is flawed, or we grasp at desperation to maintain it by leaping to the absurd with "it must have been their first RPG". I was an avid gamer and 35 when Morrowind came out, so that theory is shot to snit. Just because someone prefers something older doesn't mean it' s nostalgia, there is the very real possibility that the older thing was/is better in their opinion.

2: Rose colored glasses. No one is saying that Morrowind is flawless. It's like a lover, you take them as they are, warts and all. This is further complicated by the fact that there isn't a universal consensus on which aspects of Morrowind actually ARE flaws. Some folks actually prefer attributes and "chance to hit" combat mechanics and text instead of voiced dialog. Again, no one is saying Morrowind is perfect (which, by default kills the RCG arguement), we're saying that we prefer it to other games even with it's flaws.

Some folks view an imperfect 5 pound diamond as far more precious than a 10 pound chunk of flawless coal.


tl;dr: Folks love Morrowind because they think it's a great game. It really is that simple.


P.s. This wasn't meant as an attack on you, but it was an attack on faulty "logic".

So if someone doesn't put IMO before anything, they are open to attack...

nevermind that they are not you, or that this is the internet or if ever someone says this is fact anyone who says otherwise is derp.


no you have to put imo because there is this unwritten right that if you don't you are to be assailed.


funny, retorts don't say imo when they are making a counter statement to something they don't like.


Best advice? don't take it to heart, if its not you don't take it as permission to wail on someone else.

he said "First, a little history. My first game was Morrowind in 2002."

dont get me wrong i love skyrim more then the other 2 but i agree skyrim is failing at what the other brought and the same can be said visa versa what the other 2 lacked and skyrim brought WAS the immersion what ever road you choose they tried to keep you in it yes they failed at some points for instance the length of some quest and i believe the guards treating you as noob even if your a master is a overlooked bug it happens.......2nd call it mainstream if you will but thats not whats happening its evolution their trying to make it simple enough to get in and have you make more difficult decisions the farther down you go it may break some immersion but lets face it, its a RPG at heart you should be role playing not becoming a listener as a paldin type character as the arch mage of winterhold. see what i did their? COMPLETLY breaks immersion.....though they need to add some things to make you really feel like you achieved it.

note i enjoy the fact we can keep working in are guilds with the raidant story

Well, when you try to state facts (Specially with non-factual things) you will receive answers of people that don't agree with you. That probably will lead to a infinite discussion because neither of you are going to convince the other one.

But... If you put a "In My Opinion" at the start you is almost always protected inside the "It's my Opinion, you can't discuss my opinion, you need to understand that different people have different opinions!" argument.

Anyway, if you didn't put it in a gross manner, it already helps your argumentation/complain a lot. I would take a educated complainer before a gross f?nboy everyday. :tongue:

I love Skyrim and think it is an amazing game. I believe it is fun and exciting and just outright great. But, it is a little bit too easy. I remember Oblivion being hard for me(until I got used to it) but once I stepped foot into Skyrim it was easy on the get go. I'm not a fan of simplifying and I hate games that used to be hard, turn out easy in the sequel. I'll say this right now, I believe Skyrim is the best out of all the Elder Scrolls. But, it could have been 10x better.

If you think that someones opinion is treated as a fact, the problem is with you, stop treating it that way,

you are all INSANE

skyrim is one of the best TES games i ever played

and YES MW still has more .... well weirdness which i enjoyed A LOT, in my opinion MW had more Qs which were more interesting (since it was text based and they could really go crazy with quest dialog and complexity)

voice over really limits this BUT a compromise as to be made

in short

skyrim beats OB and MW on every level, but yes MW has more "openness" and more dialog (text)

Is that your opinion or is that a fact? :homestar:

Or people could have actual courtesy and respect other people's opinions

Touche'.


gotta regroup..will return better armed ( by paying attention). :bolt:

It's my opinion.

I'll give you a fact. I will not qualify everything I say with "In my opinion" just because some people can't understand that most things said on an internet forum are opinions. When I have a fact I wish to share, I will accompany it with a link proving that it's a fact.

I have read and re-read this and I just can't understand how it relates to what I said (what you quoted). Enlighten me?

Been there done that. The OP is parroting the concerns of past Morrowind

I would though. I loved it that you could not hit anything if you lacked the skill. Our stats used to mean something great, but now they have less and less impact on the gameplay. To make up for it they introduce perks (TES used to not rely on these tier-progression ideas that have been present in other RPGs all along. Perks are nothing new to video games, they just slapped a shiny new name on it.)

Agility and Luck used to mean something (when they were still there)... if they were both extremely high, you could dodge like no other. Now we have to level up smithing and enchanting perks to survive even five seconds on the battlefield.

When you state your opinion as a fact, you tend to offend people who hold an opposing viewpoint.

Examples:

"You have a terrible username."

"This is the worst RPG I've ever played."

I might be coming across as harsh but really I've been through the same thing and trying to help the people who are Morrowind or bust. About 5 years ago I gave up trying to find the next Everquest. Once I realized it was never going to happen again, other games with RPG roots became fun again. His deliver the package to Caius story was a simple one....not unlike the many simple stories we all have had in our first "open world".

Maybe I don't have a true say in this thread because I haven't played Skyrim yet, but I have played Oblivion has my first game, then I later picked up Morrowind, and then I fooled around a bit in Arena and Daggerfall. While I liked Morrowind as a game, I found it nowhere near as enjoyable Oblivion (although both games had its flaws). Someone needs to explain to Morrowin fanboyism. I've played through most of the quests about a year ago, and just started a second play through recently.

A lot of the quests in Morrowind were pretty bad. I don't want to roleplay as a delivery boy who gets attacked by cliffracers all the time. I just started the mages guild and the first two quests send me out to pick some mushrooms and flowers. Then once I start moving up in the guild, I get to collect guild dues and convince someone to join the mages guild. Looking at the early Oblivion quests which had me take down a mage who was preying off of traveling merchants or recovering an amulet for the head of the local hall, these quests were much more interesting.

I also see people complaining a lot about the implementations of fast travel and the compass marker. While this was initially fun trying to explore and find my way, it became rather tedious and annoying. I can only wonder around the same area looking for the one switch or door before I get so frustrated where I have to open up the wiki and cheat. Getting lost in Morrowind is NOT fun... especially when you are low level and you get mauled by cliffracers . Travel in general is very sluggish, and sprinting to your destination is very risk because it drains all of your fatigue. Traveling around in Oblivion is much more fun (mainly because it doesn't waste so much time). My only complaint about the compass marker in oblivion was the green one which actually pointed to where items were inside of dungeons; it made things a little too easy.

Now about the removal of attributes and the addition of the perk system. The purpose of a RPG is for you to develop your character and establish a unique identity that separates it from everyone else. Again, I haven't played Skyrim yet so my opinion may be completely worthless, but I am rather excited about the new changes. I feel like the perk system would make your character more specialized, thus giving him a more unique identity compared to your other characters. While you could max all your skills to 100, your character will still specialize in certain roles depending on the perks you chose. Maybe I'm just not a true RPGer, but I don't see what Morrowind's attribute system contributed to a role playing experience. Once your characters starts leveling up more and more, you eventually push all your attributes and skills to 100, and your character loses its identity unless you purposely choose to stop trying to level up. Every character can essentially become a jack-of-all-trades guy. In Skyrim, it seems like they force you to specialize in a role with the perk system, which in my opinion, makes it a better role-playing game. I think it may have been possible for Bethesda to keep some sort of attribute system in as well as some of the skills they removed, but overall I look forward to this change.

Those are opinions.

Yes, they are. And the manner in which they are stated implies that they are facts.

Only if you take them that way. I liked Oblivion and if I treated every Oblivion hating opinion as fact, I would have no hair left by now. So you don't like my username? Ok, that's just your opinion.

Really? So how do you scientifically prove that someone's username is "good" or "bad"? Or that an RPG is the "worst" out of the group that any specific person has played?

You cannot. It's all subjective opinion.